Just wondering what others would do.

[simonwig]

Hi

So, just about warm enough for an inspection (first of year and quick), and looking worse here tomorrow so went for it.

Three hives, all very low in bee numbers, 3 frames of bees in one (not full frames) and 4/5 in the other two. All wooden nationals with insulation on top.

One has a good patch on one frame and half patch on another of BIS. One two small patches BIS and the last one very small patch (only a few sealed).

No sign of drone brood and saw Queens in all three. All have sufficient stores of honey but hardly any pollen although they are bringing it in. no signs of disease although quick inspections.

I guess the question is do we leave them to keep going and hope they build up, although I already suspect a harvest is unlikely, it’s going to take them quite a while to build up any decent numbers.

Or unite two or even all three hives, perhaps moving one Queen in to an Apidea and one for someone locally who is Q-.

Or (and or) move one into my new poly nuc and one into my new poly national to give them a better chance.

What would you do, I know it’s my choice but observations welcome.

Simon

 

[beeno]

Hi Simon,
Our association apiary inspection did not do much better than that on some hives. Four or five frames (full mind) was the norm. I would put the smallest in a PN though.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You could dummy down the other two to two frames more that they occupy at present but keep a real close eye on expansion when our weather get tropical!!

 

[mbc]

I'm not sure about uniting at this time of year, just adding about to expire bees, with all their associated problems, to others in the same boat is unlikely to achieve much IMHO.
Patience is the best course of action I would say, just what would they forage on if they were a big bustling colony ? You may be surprised by just how quick they can expand once the forage and weather suit, I know I've been shocked in the past at how they seem to defy the timing of brood cycles and jump ahead much quicker than expected.

 

[Finman]

.
I know very well that all your colonies have went under normal build up size.
And forecast to Leeds does not promise foraging weathers that they could start brooding.

If you join them all, you get one normal hive-. It takes 4 weeks before the hive can get new bees. - If they have now much brood. Before that over half of your bees will die natural way and then their ability to nurse brood is poor.

I have every spring that kind of colonies but I have too big hives from where I can take frames of emerging brood and get the small hives to normal state.
With the help of their own their build up is really slow.

. I suppose that after this kind of spring lifespan of bees is short. It is very different than in summer.

 

[Finman]

You may be surprised by just how quick they can expand once .

- The cycle of brood is 3 weeks
- good weather are not promised for next following week
- 4 frame swarm is very slow to build up

No on knows what this kind of spring bring with itself.

It is sure that build up is not quick.

 

[Skyhook]

The text-book answer would be move them into a nuc. The next best thing would seem to be 1 into the nuc box, one into the poly hive half-filled with Kingspan, and the third king-spanned as much as possible. I would then suggest patties and light syrup- everything possible to get them rearing brood.

 

[Chorlton Honey Bees]

 

[enrico]

I would leave them alone and feed 1:1. If they've survived this long then a couple more weeks should be ok. Pollen here is scarce at the moment but one warm day and everything will change. I wouldn't put them in nucs now just to have to put them back in a couple of weeks. That's what I would do, actually that's what I have done as mine are in a similar condition to yours. Still got all five alive though! Br brave and patient!

 

[Finman]

I would leave them alone and feed 1:1. If they've survived this long then a couple more weeks should be ok. Pollen here is scarce at the moment but one warm day and everything will change. I wouldn't put them in nucs now just to have to put them back in a couple of weeks. That's what I would do, actually that's what I have done as mine are in a similar condition to yours. Still got all five alive though! Br brave and patient!

Matthew 6:26

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Are your hives not much more valuable than they?

 

[enrico]

I have greater faith in my bees than you do! I leave nothing to god but all to chance and my bees need to survive!

 

[Finman]

I have greater faith in my bees than you do! !

Yes, I strenghten my faith with pollen patty and with electrict heating.

.

 

[enrico]

:

Yes, I strenghten my faith with pollen patty and with electrict heating.

.

 

[thorn]

Simon, you obviously live in the warm part of Leeds. There's no way I'm going to do more this weekend than check the fondant.

 

[Walrus]

My understanding is that in a cold winter many colonies will be more or less broodless for a long period and will therefore not have to work so hard to keep the temperature at levels needed for brood rearing. I think it is when the temperature goes up and down a lot over winter/early spring that you get more knackered winter bees. Especially if you get a warm Feb then a cold March.

So the winter bees could still have a bit of life in them yet.

But on the down side a smaller colony will have to work harder to maintain heat than a big one, and low numbers limit how much the queen can lay. She may be a great queen but you wouldn't know it if she is limited by low numbers of workers.

One of my colonies is small and I'm still not sure what to do with it either. I think it must be worth hanging onto all non-dud queens, even if just in a nuc/mini hive, because it is insurance against a queen mishap in the other hives, which right now would be a disaster.

 

[Skyhook]

Matthew 6:26

Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.

Apart from the ones that starve to death, that is.

.

 

[simonwig]

Update

Thanks for all the advice, thought I’d give you an update.

Given the weather for the couple of weeks after my post I decided not to go back in again and disturb by moving into the polys. Relying instead on patience and patties (no electric heating though).

I did feed all three Neopol, each took about 500 gm in three weeks.

And…

All three still alive…..numbers of bees about the same, which I actually see as good news. All really good tempered, little bit of drone brood, nothing to worry about.

The best now has three frames of BIAS and some orientation flights today.

Next one BIAS in about 2.5 frames and also some orientation flights.

Weakest has BIAS on one frame, not much, so still touch and go but should be some new bees to start building up.

All flying well bringing in and storing pollen with plenty of stores.

Thanks again.

Simon

 

[enrico]

Thanks for the update, it is nice to know which advice you took and what happened as a result!

 

[oliver90owner]

It may not be long before the strongest colony could do without a small patch of emerging brood. That would give your weakest colony a boost. Just a choice of getting two going strongly and one lagging or keeping them all equal.

As you are going to miss any winter OSR crop, a later flow might be the better target for some crop.

 

[yeogi75]

mine was in the same situation as yours, decided to close floor, smallest entrance on front of hive, one pint of 1 to 1 on hive no more to get started, one week ago put brood box under brood to keep heat in top of hive, now warmed up a bit done hive check 6 1/2 brood 5 capped rest grubs and rest eggs, running out of space put bottom brood box on top to start to warm up for bees to start to draw, see how they get on next weekend might give some 1 to 1 if needs boost but only a pint at a time still bottom board in for now