Just wandering what would happen!

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John Hammond

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I dunno why but I was just thinking what would happen if you was to unite a week hive with a laying worker to a strong hive with a good laying queen.
Would the queen kill the worker?
 
Your laying worker hive has lots of laying workers. Not one. Put the Q+ colony on the bottom. Unite through newspaper and away you go. Simple.
 
Workers regulate laying worker eggs in a normal colony (not many, if any laying workers). Brood pheromones 'disable' or discourage laying workers. Simple as that. No queen involvement in policing, other than laying for brood.
 
Your laying worker hive has lots of laying workers. Not one. Put the Q+ colony on the bottom. Unite through newspaper and away you go. Simple.


Do we know that's not risky? I've not had LW yet but I thought they form a sisterhood that takes more than 24h to subside under Q pheromones so a danger they kill the Q? i.e.', it's slower than nonLW forgetting their mother because of the physiological changes?
 
There has been lots of chat here about what to do with laying workers.
Quite a few people talk of shaking the colony out, as if laying workers couldn't fly which of course they can.
I have united laying workers twice for friends after reading here that it was usually quite safe.
I did just what I described and all was well
I guess you could put the Q+ colony on top where the queen is better kept safe by her own bees if you are concerned. Maybe you could even add a super in between.
Back to the OP
RAB is quite correct. It is the bees that police laying. The queen in a laying worker unite would not go hunting out all the laying workers.
 
There has been lots of chat here about what to do with laying workers.
Quite a few people talk of shaking the colony out, as if laying workers couldn't fly which of course they can.
...
RAB is quite correct. It is the bees that police laying. The queen in a laying worker unite would not go hunting out all the laying workers.

Shaking out laying workers is the conventional, routine response.
There was a recent discussion about the unconventional (misconception?) shaking out of a Drone Laying Queen colony.

Shaking out is to break up the colony. Not to sort fliers from non-fliers.

Breaking up the colony is necessary because of what happens to "worker policing" in a Laying Worker colony.
Half-sisters unite with their own half-sisters to raise their eggs. And they defend them against other similarly-minded sisterhoods.
And those sisterhoods regard a real Q as being as much of a threat to their offspring as the threat from other sisterhoods. It is the Laying Workers sisterhoods that would go hunting for the Q !
Shaking out the colony breaks up those sisterhoods.
Individual bees have to beg their way into (hopefully plural) different colonies, where the 'pecking order' is well established, and they are there on sufferance. They are in no position to gang-up with enough of their own half-sisters to mount a coup against the resident Q.
Any eggs laid by the incomers will be "policed" out of existence by the existing colony's workers.

But if you unite a Q+ colony with a colony of Laying Workers, the sisterhoods see the real Q as a threat, and are likely to try and attack her.
Bees being bees, little is 100% certain, but that is established as being massively the most likely outcome.

Laying by workers is inhibited not by Q pheromone, but by (worker) brood pheromones.
And it takes a while (weeks I believe) to "turn off" laying workers by new exposure to brood pheromones.


Laying Worker colony - shake it out.
Drone Laying Queen - remove her, then unite with a Queenright colony.


Don't confuse them!
 
I dunno why but I was just thinking what would happen if you was to unite a week hive with a laying worker to a strong hive with a good laying queen.
Would the queen kill the worker?

I hope my previous response makes clear that the threat is that the Laying Workers would kill the good laying Q.
Which is why uniting with Laying Workers is not done, except by those whose bravery and/or number of colonies exceeds their wish to retain that queenright colony!
 
Do we know that's not risky? ?

At least I know that normal joining hives or intoduction of new queen is Always risky.
When nectar flow is good, risk to loose the queen is perhaps 20% and in late summer without flow, risk may be 80%.

Once I joined 4 nucs before autumn feeding. I lost 3 queens and then it went to winter without the queen.

Do we know? When I read the pals' writings in this forum, it seems that I know nothing. .... But old fart gets however nice yields...

Worker queens do not add risk of loosing the queen. Queen may squeeze for example between frames.
.
 
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