Ivy Honey

[Erichalfbee]

I've just finished some vague varroa monitoring by leaving the inspection trays in for a week or so. Every morning there are little sprinkles of crystallised honey. Who says bees don't use ivy

 

[pargyle]

I've just finished some vague varroa monitoring by leaving the inspection trays in for a week or so. Every morning there are little sprinkles of crystallised honey. Who says bees don't use ivy

Yes they do .. Mine usually overwinter on a high percentage of ivy honey ...there's always some left in Spring but there's plenty of empty cells to confirm that they do use it ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bees aren't daft - they've been collecting this stuff for millions of years, if they couldn't use it they wouldn't bother wasting their energy bringing it in. t's only a few beekeepers, in their wisdom who have decided the bees can't cope with it (IMHO preferring to blame ivy honey for the odd dead out rather than their own c*ck up )

 

[philipm]

Noticed mine today a little bit of sunshine and they were out on the ivy that still has flowers.

 

[alldigging]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardenin...s-urged-to-let-ivy-flourish-to-save-bees.html

Professor Francis Ratnieks and student Mihail Garbuzov, from the laboratory of apiculture at the University of Sussex, have been conducting research on how to improve honey bee numbers.
In their latest study, published in the journal of Insect Conservation and Diversity, they found that ivy formed the mainstay of the pollen and nectar collected by honey bees in both urban and rural areas.

 

[Swarm]

Of course they use it. Why else would nature provide this late source of nourishment?

 

[BrianO]

Bees aren't daft - they've been collecting this stuff for millions of years, if they couldn't use it they wouldn't bother wasting their energy bringing it in. t's only a few beekeepers, in their wisdom who have decided the bees can't cope with it (IMHO preferring to blame ivy honey for the odd dead out rather than their own c*ck up )

At last, how many posts have we read about the Stupid Bees not being able to access their crystalised Ivy stores and dying. What do they know , Goddam Bees . Not as clever as us Beekeepers with our bags of equipment

 

[Fatbee]

Same applies to that dastardly OSR stuff! Good job Brian we have clever bees who know how to use this wonderful stuff!

 

[pingping]

I agree.

Ivy is the most important crop of the year and the best honey, from a bees point of view. So long as there is a good long autumn I don't winter feed: we have heaps of ivy and they can easily collect 40lb in 3 weeks. Almost none given to 10 colonies this year.

Go along an ivy hedge: some are foraged, some are not. By this natural selection ivy has evolved to provide exactly what bees require at exactly the right time for overwintering. The qualities I have noticed are:

Fast-setting at any temperature. This is critical, because hard set honey is a half measure if a cold snap prevents the bees from capping. Ivy is often left un-capped.

Low hydrophilic (water attractant): only the surface of ivy honey wets by hive moisture from respiration. This wet surface absorbed from bees respiration actually allows a well-insulated colony to remain in the hive for months at a time with almost no need for water trips to dissolve and dilute the crystalline honey. It self-dilutes without fermenting.

Highly aromatic: I do not think this is an accident. It may well have a critical role in varroa survival by wild colonies, as well as deterrence of wax moth.

Makes hellish tough wax: brace comb in overwintering hives can be mostly ivy sourced. It is yellow, especially thick and firm and does not become brittle when frozen. Bees use it at the top of the hive as brace comb to the crown board. It would be worth researching whether a natural colony uses it to re-inforce their combs bindings to the wood of the tree, to lock it firmly in place overwinter. I would like to see an analysis of its thermal properties relative to summer honey derived wax.

Prolific pollen: my bees will go into winter with between 2 and 6 frames of ivy pollen (300-900 sq inches) in 20 frame hives. The ideal for maximum spring strength is about 400 sq inches, according to research.

Anyone observed anything else?

As a diet, I do not believe that British sugar comes close to a slab of ivy and a million years of R&D. Let em at it.

 

[BeeJayBee]

... Go along an ivy hedge: some are foraged, some are not. By this natural selection ivy has evolved to provide exactly what bees require at exactly the right time for overwintering. ...

... As a diet, I do not believe that [...] sugar comes close to a slab of ivy and a million years of R&D. Let em at it.

Flowering plants and bees have spent a fair amount of time working together to get it right.

 

[REDWOOD]

If the temperature is high enough, like this week, for them to collect water they will use it.

 

[oliver90owner]

If the temperature is high enough, like this week, for them to collect water they will use it.

Simple. If still brooding, they may well need water, if no nectar is available. Some may notice that larvae have a rather higher water content than honey.

 

[bpmurray]

I agree.
Makes hellish tough wax: brace comb in overwintering hives can be mostly ivy sourced. It is yellow, especially thick and firm and does not become brittle when frozen. Bees use it at the top of the hive as brace comb to the crown board. It would be worth researching whether a natural colony uses it to re-inforce their combs bindings to the wood of the tree, to lock it firmly in place overwinter. I would like to see an analysis of its thermal properties relative to summer honey derived wax.

I had never thought before of the source influencing the wax - is there any good documentation on what makes the best wax or what kind of wax to expect from specific sources?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dandelions make very yellow wax
Evidence is anecdotal though.....does that count

 

[bpmurray]

Dandelions make very yellow wax
Evidence is anecdotal though.....does that count

I suppose it has to - I can't find any research on wax sources, only on wax chemical composition.

 

[pingping]

@ bpmurray 'I had never thought before of the source influencing the wax - is there any good documentation on what makes the best wax or what kind of wax to expect from specific sources?'

No, none. Once it is processed by man it is probably much of a muchness. But how can a solid, white honey stuffed with phenolics be made into a wax the same as rape wax? They don't look the same, handle the same, and the bees are clearly not filtering out the phenolics otherwise some wax-making bees would be farting essence of ivy.

The adaptations of flowers to bees and vice versa cant be limited to just providing/collecting nectar, and everything else is inccidental. Every specific thing a plant produces must be exactly what a bee wants at a given time of year. Has to be. Or they wouldn't go get it. So whatever you can imagine a bee in nature might need at any given time of year, plants will be making. Rape coincides with swarming - masses of weak nectar and pollen for rapid wax production and new brood rearing in swarmed colonies. etc. Same for ivy and winter needs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So just surmise then

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Dandelions make very yellow wax
Evidence is anecdotal though.....does that count

Anecdotal evidence here supports your thesis

 

[Erichalfbee]

Anecdotal evidence here supports your thesis

Wonderful.
I shall award myself a PhD

 

[Finman]

Dandelions make very yellow wax
Evidence is anecdotal though.....does that count

The yellow color of wax comes from the larva poo's pollen, which is between brood silk. So, from old brood combs.

Dandelion honey combs have pollen on their surface but it does not give much color to wax, because amount is small.


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