Is our Nucleus Expanding Sufficiently?

[Beverlyp24]

Hi,

We are new to beekeeping and acquired a nucleus of bees in late June.

We are learning fast, but not fast enough... and have a few concerns which we would be very grateful for any input and advice on:

1. We cant find the queen, though there are lots of larvae, so we think she must be there somehwere!
2. Our biggest concern is that there is sufficient expansion to enable the bees to get through the winter. At present, within the 12 frames in the brood box, four a re full and two have some bees on them and the beginning of frame being built. The remaining frames are empty. We have one super on top which is also empty at this stage.

Please could I ask, what speed of expansion should we expect to see and should we be concerned about there being sufficient bees / honey to keep them going through the winter please?

Many thanks for any advice, we would be very grateful!

 

[Martley]

Hi Beverley
I am no expert - only in my 2nd season, but sounds to me like they have far too much space to keep warm?
I would take the super off, remove some of the undrawn brood frames and replace them with some insulation
I also have insulation above the crown board - helps them keep nice and cosy leaving them free to put energy into expansion
However I live in the grim North... Maybe different down your way

 

[Cazza]

Hi

1. Don't look for the queen, look for eggs. If you see them, all should be well.

2. If I don't say it. someone else will. Your bees have far too much room to heat up. Take the empty super off and think seriously about dummying down the space where the empty frames are.

No point worrying about expected build up, worry about whether they have enough stores and laying room.

Personally I am not inspecting my bees very often now as there is no real purpose to it for me at this time in the season. (Honey and swarming are done.)
Cazza

 

[REDWOOD]

First remove the super, only add when you have 7 frames of brood.
A nuc in a hive should have been dummied down to 7 frames to start with and gradually add more when needed

Keeping the bees warm is a vital requirement for fast expansion, so you have six frames of bees and 6 empty frames, remove 6 frames and put one against the hive wall move the other frames with bees up against the frame you just added and another empty frame the other side, finally add a dummy board. As the colony expands you can add more frames.
A national hive usually has 11 frames + a dummy board
It is important that a colony has stores and the queen has room to lay
Reduce the entrance size or fit an entrance block this time of year
Hope this helps

 

[Bosleeu]

I think you should get an experienced beekeeper to have a look at your bees pretty soon.

You should have a lot more bees by now, so I would suspect something has gone wrong. It is difficult to tell you what without looking at it.

Decisions will need to be made with winter approaching.

Sorry not to be more specific but the presence or absence of the queen, the state of the brood, possible disease, stores etc etc need to be assessed before you can make a plan of action.

 

[pargyle]

First remove the super, only add when you have 7 frames of brood.
A nuc in a hive should have been dummied down to 7 frames to start with and gradually add more when needed

Keeping the bees warm is a vital requirement for fast expansion, so you have six frames of bees and 6 empty frames, remove 6 frames and put one against the hive wall move the other frames with bees up against the frame you just added and another empty frame the other side, finally add a dummy board. As the colony expands you can add more frames.
A national hive usually has 11 frames + a dummy board
It is important that a colony has stores and the queen has room to lay
Reduce the entrance size or fit an entrance block this time of year
Hope this helps

+ Fill any empty space on the other side of the dummy board with any insulation you can .. I use Kingspan cut to the size of the inside of the hive but a bag of woodshavings or polystyrene beads .. anything ... will do the job.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think you should get an experienced beekeeper to have a look at your bees pretty soon.

You should have a lot more bees by now, so I would suspect something has gone wrong.

I agree
I have a nuc acquired the same time as you and they are on nine frames of brood and into their second super.
When did you put your super on, by the way? If it went on as soon as you put them into the big hive it might just be as simple as FAR too much space.
Dummy and insulation as everybody has said.
I might even close the floor.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Have you checked for varroa?

This time last year I had a nuc very much like yours.
It was only when I saw clear evidence of DWV that I realised they were badly overrun with varroa.

Dusty

 

[yeogi75]

Also put in bottom board for a few weeks to allow then to get built up heat

 

[Beverlyp24]

Thanks so much for all the help given!

The super was put on about two weeks after we received the nucleus, so about a month ago. We have now removed the super and added a dummy board as suggested to restrict the space and add heat. We also have spare pieces of celotex insulation, so thinking of adding that for additional insulation. We havent seen any evidence of varroa but will check again just to be sure.

We do now have a telephone number for someone local and I plan to call on Monday - don't want to disturb his weekend!

We read lots of books, but now find our knowledge hopelessly lacking.

Thanks again for the advice, very very grateful!!

 

[Jimy Dee]

Beverly - relax and dont beat yourself up. You took the plung, got your bees and with dummying down and removing the super you are doing excellently well for your first year. You have obviously learned loads and you are still learning fast. Outside of varroa , make sure your bees will be properly fed for winter and wrapped with insulation to keep them warm and look forward to spring 2015. Brood equals a queen so relax - she is there. Most people on the forum are out to assist and are great to do so but dont be too taken with disease and doom and gloom. Bess are survivors. You only have them a few weeks and they are expanding despite having to heat significantly too much room! Keep going - you are now a beekeeper.

 

[Rahere]

Yes, back the dummy board with 2" Celotex, as you've only 7 frames.
Anyone join me in thinking they should be fed from here on in? Sugar syrup.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not wothout knowing a few more facts - how much stores did they have? if they're still bringing nectar in slathering loads of syrup on at this point may be counter productive.

 

[Beverlyp24]

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement, it is very helpful and we will be doing our utmost to help, rather than hinder the bees in preparing for winter. There are lots of brood and the outside area of the full frames is full of honey, though obviously we are concerned that it may not be enough to feed them over the winter. I may see if I can attach some photos, as that's May be more helpful than my descriptions.

Space is now reduced and the insulation will be added tomorrow, just need to cut it down to size.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As you've gone down the route of dummying down - always make sure they have a frame of two to draw out so they can expand. Plenty of time before worrying about winter stores, let them get on with building up now or you'll end up with combs filled with syrup not brood. You can start preparations for feeding the middle or end of next month. They don't seem to need anything at the moment.

 

[Bosleeu]

Please let us know how they do!

 

[REDWOOD]

If you don't have kingspan insulation bubble wrap will do the job, just role it up into sausages and place in the void.

 

[Beverlyp24]

I definitely will!

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Have you joined your local Beekeeping association, lots of benefits, inc. insurance.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Hi,

We are new to beekeeping and acquired a nucleus of bees in late June.

We are learning fast, but not fast enough... and have a few concerns which we would be very grateful for any input and advice on:

1. We cant find the queen, though there are lots of larvae, so we think she must be there somehwere!
2. Our biggest concern is that there is sufficient expansion to enable the bees to get through the winter. At present, within the 12 frames in the brood box, four a re full and two have some bees on them and the beginning of frame being built. The remaining frames are empty. We have one super on top which is also empty at this stage.

Please could I ask, what speed of expansion should we expect to see and should we be concerned about there being sufficient bees / honey to keep them going through the winter please?

Many thanks for any advice, we would be very grateful!

May I ask what the Nuc consisted of when you bought it?

I have heard stories of very weak Nucs being sold, in some cases for a lot of money to un-suspecting new beekeepers!