Is my Queen not mated?

[Luka22]

Hi all,

I have a quick question and I am sure I will get some bad responses as well for asking the question at this time of the year, but I will still dare to ask.

I have a nuc which had a Queen hatched very late this year. If I remember right, it was some time in September. I spoke to a few people to find out what they thought to do and they all said are there still Drones around in your Hives and if so, let it be she should still get mated. There was still Drones, so I left it. I had a quick check each week, when the weather allowed it, but I have never seen Brood. I also noticed that the Queen was rather small. Is it right that a small Queen is a sign of not being mated or do I make it up? I fed with Neopoll and they also bring in Pollen, but just checked again, still no brood. Can I assume that she is not mated or what do you guys think? Should I get rid of her and unite, I suppose nobody got a Queen left anymore for me....? Yes I know its already late, but it would still be nice to save this colony and I hate killing Queens.

 

[oliver90owner]

Hatched or emerged - nearly two weeks difference. Assuming you mean emerged. October 3rd and 4th were delightful days for queens to get mated. But if you are not sure if it was September or October emergence, she may have missed that window.

If she emerged Aug/Sept, she should be laying by now. Still plenty of time to unite if the weather stays good. Uniting is clearly your last option. Up to you how long you leave the decision.

She will have a fatter abdomen if fed up for laying. Remember, they slim the queen before swarming and that will be why she would stop laying a few days before they go. I would ave been feeding thin syrup, if they needed it. Iv they are desperately srt of stores and a very small nuc, the colony may just not be viable.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if they haven't an abundance of stores they may have put the queen off laying even if she had successfully mated. getting a bit late now for colony build up regardless.

 

[Luka22]

It was definitely in September, I just can not remember the exact date. I have been Feeding 2:1 and Neopoll and as I said they also bring in Pollen. They got Stores and capped some as well. I still keep feeding and let them have as much as they want, so I can not see that it's a lack of food. I do remember that there was a few days of sun, after she emerged, but god knows if she used that opportunity.

What confuses me, they bring in Pollen, does it mean they know she is mated, but for whatever reason she did not start yet or am I right that would they do that anyway?

 

[dexter's shed]

or am I right that would they do that anyway?

queenless bees do, so why not

 

[beeno]

Hi Luka,
Your winter bees are born in September/October in the South East and you have not got any. Unite is your only option IMHO. September emergence odds are against you.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I can't believe that a queen will mate in the second half of October. I would remove her and unite to another colony.

 

[snelgrove]

with no brood there will be no youngish bees to take it through the winter, I would be uniting a full colony now let alone a nuc. a nuc has no chance of wintering if it hasn't had any brood

 

[drex]

. I still keep feeding and let them have as much as they want, so I can not see that it's a lack of food.

are there any empty cells in which she can lay then, or are they all bunged up with stores?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What confuses me, they bring in Pollen,

They're bees - they'll bring in pollen if it is available whether the queen is mated or not - or even not present.

are there any empty cells in which she can lay then, or are they all bunged up with stores?

Good point well made

 

[Luka22]

are there any empty cells in which she can lay then, or are they all bunged up with stores?

Yes, she got enough space to lay, no doubt about that. I guess I will have to go the way to remove and unite. Not a nice thought and another colony lost :-(

But thanks guys for your view on this topic.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Hi Luka, very interesting question, thanks for asking, I am in the same thinking, unite or risk losing those resources. I harvested 3 queens in late September from mini mating nucs, as I figured it would be better to use those three queens in nucs that had good sized "queen less" colonies (through not getting mated) and see if those mini mating nucs(I harvested from) made new queens in time.
Well, remarkably they all had emergency cells and we had good weather and I saw a healthy looking virgin in each small colony. I am in the uk at the moment and I am looking forward to go back and see if they have mated and started to Lay. I am only in St Malo, so my winters and autumn are very similar to those on the south coast of the uk.
One other thing I fortunately have, is other frames of small amounts of brood , so I can add to a colony if the queen has started to lay. A good point made in this discussion was the lack of hatching brood now, would probably mean the loss of the colony during the winter, which I would agree with totally! Sometimes I find you cant bear to unite a seemingly queen right colony, but you will be "oh so glad" you did next spring, when it a healthy, strong and bursting full of bees!

 

[bbop]

We have a related issue.

We had a problem hive that seemed back on track after various issues including a drone laying queen. We introduced a mated laying queen (marked and clipped) in early July, and all seemed fine with Bias etc until mid September when she was not to be found and there was some sealed QCs. left one that seems to have been vacated around late Sep / early Oct.

Now there are 5/6 frames with bees and stores but no brood sealed or otherwise.
'Brood cells' have been left empty. A queen has not been seen. She may have died or be a small virgin...or..?

We want to unite this hive with another similar sized hive that has developed and increased from a recaptured clipped queen and a frame of bees.

Given that there may be a queen present is it too risky to unite the first hive with the second hive? Do unmated Virgin Queens pose the same threat as a mated Queen? Might there be a mated queen present, that we have missed, and who would not be laying because of the temperature / time of year?

Should we use some sort straining method i.e. through a QE to be sure there is no queen present?

Any helpful answers greatly appreciated

 

[Hivemaker.]

Any helpful answers greatly appreciated

Put in a test comb.