Is my new queen a dud?

[Adamski20]

This is a follow up to my post from a few weeks ago.

I had to go for a two week holiday shortly after that last post. The push in cage from BeckysBeezzz didn't arrive in time either. So I just had to leave things as they were and hope for the best whilst I was away. Just got back on Saturday and managed to check hive yesterday.

• The new queen is still there, alive and running about the frames
• There is still some capped drone brood. Some old enough for the drones to be emerging, some not as old with the drones inside white and squidgy but definitely bee shaped (pupae?)
• There is no other brood or larvae at any stage
• There are no eggs

Its been 4 weeks since the new queen was introduced and probably about 3 weeks since she would have been released from her cage, yet there are no new eggs and no larvae.

Is it normal after introducing a new queen for there to be such a delay before she starts laying, or is my new queen a dud?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Was the bought queen marked?

 

[Adamski20]

Was the bought queen marked?

Yes

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is there space or is the brood stuffed with honey and pollen ?

 

[rolande]

It's often worth adding a comb of open brood in these situations. Not sure how it works, maybe it's the addition of the 'appropriate' pheromones that kicks everything off in the right direction, maybe something less tangible but a new queen will often be brought into lay soon after the addition. It certainly won't do your colony any harm, in fact it's probably worth adding a comb of emerging brood too to try and bring the population into balance.

Remember also, it may have taken the bees longer than a week to release the Queen so the timescale may be out a little.

 

[Adamski20]

Is there space or is the brood stuffed with honey and pollen ?

I'm running brood and a half.

In the full brood chamber there was

• 4 frames with undrawn foundation.
• 1 frame with about 25% pollen and the rest empty cells (though this was on the very back of the chamber)
• The rest of the frames were honey and capped drone brood although not completely filled, I would say there was still about 25%-33% space on these

In the half chamber there was

• 7 frames with undrawn foundation
• 1 frame with empty drawn comb on about 50% of the frame
• the rest of the frames were honey and capped drone brood

So there wasn't masses of space, but it wasn't 100% filled, yet there was 0% BIAS except for the old laying worker capped drone brood.

I thought being honey bound might be a problem so moved the mainly empty draw comb frame with the pollen nearer to the middle of the brood chamber. I also had some empty comb from an old frame that came with the nuc which I had previously removed which I put back in (frame was badly damaged by rodents and comb was very old and wonky making it difficult to inspect so I had removed it, cut the less wonky pieces of the comb off and mounted in new frame to put back).

 

[Adamski20]

It's often worth adding a comb of open brood in these situations. Not sure how it works, maybe it's the addition of the 'appropriate' pheromones that kicks everything off in the right direction, maybe something less tangible but a new queen will often be brought into lay soon after the addition. It certainly won't do your colony any harm, in fact it's probably worth adding a comb of emerging brood too to try and bring the population into balance.

Remember also, it may have taken the bees longer than a week to release the Queen so the timescale may be out a little.

Would if I could, first year beeking and I only have the one hive so don't have anywhere to transfer open brood in from. This first year has taught me that I should really have a least two hives, so I'm grabbing a second from the Thorne sale this weekend in readiness to run two next year.

 

[rolande]

Would if I could, first year beeking and I only have the one hive so don't have anywhere to transfer open brood in from. This first year has taught me that I should really have a least two hives, so I'm grabbing a second from the Thorne sale this weekend in readiness to run two next year.

A light syrup feed may also help to get things going if there's not much nectar going in.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

A hive would have to be absolutely crammed to the gunnals for a new queen not to lay; there is plenty of space and the queen isn't laying after being in the hive for quite a while. I would be surprised if she will now.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I'm running brood and a half.

In the full brood chamber there was

• 4 frames with undrawn foundation.
• 1 frame with about 25% pollen and the rest empty cells (though this was on the very back of the chamber)
• The rest of the frames were honey and capped drone brood although not completely filled, I would say there was still about 25%-33% space on these

In the half chamber there was

• 7 frames with undrawn foundation
• 1 frame with empty drawn comb on about 50% of the frame
• the rest of the frames were honey and capped drone brood

So there wasn't masses of space, but it wasn't 100% filled, yet there was 0% BIAS except for the old laying worker capped drone brood.

I thought being honey bound might be a problem so moved the mainly empty draw comb frame with the pollen nearer to the middle of the brood chamber. I also had some empty comb from an old frame that came with the nuc which I had previously removed which I put back in (frame was badly damaged by rodents and comb was very old and wonky making it difficult to inspect so I had removed it, cut the less wonky pieces of the comb off and mounted in new frame to put back).

I'm wondering why you have brood and a half when there's so much undrawn foundation in the boxes? Did you just transfer the frames from the NUC into the vast, cavernous space they are faced with now? Are you able to make contact with a nearby beekeeper who might be willing to let you have a frame of bias? It really seems you are groping around blindly and what's really needed is a competent mentor who can guide you in a hands-on way.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Yes

Is the seen queen marked?

 

[Adamski20]

Is the seen queen marked?

yes, the queen that i saw in the hive a couple of days ago is the same marked queen that was introduced. The mark is quite distinctive as it didn't make a nice round yellow dot on her thorax, was more of a crescent shape

 

[ericbeaumont]

Reckon Adam is right, and she's unlikely to lay.

I've seen a queen or two doing nothing. Usually an unmated or poorly-mated queen lays drones, but these laid nothing for weeks.

new queen is still there, alive and running about the frames

Had you also seen an unmarked queen it would have meant that the newcomer laid a few, ran out of steam and the colony superseded her. Both could co-exist for a while until the daughter began to lay.

Sure there's only one in there?

I agree with John: too much space. Do what you can to consolidate to one box and get a frame of BIAS in there asap.

 

[Adamski20]

I'm wondering why you have brood and a half when there's so much undrawn foundation in the boxes? Did you just transfer the frames from the NUC into the vast, cavernous space they are faced with now?

It was a 6 frame nuc that I originally added to a national brood box. When I added the 1/2 brood there was only 3 frames of undrawn foundation, with 6 frames with BIAS and 1 frame of drawn comb. I later removed a problematic frame and replaced with new foundation which is why I now have 4 frames of found. The bees seemed to be trying hard to swarm (lots of QCs) and were building comb upwards from the brood frames onto the QE rather than drawing out the other foundations. Some reading of online resources suggested that once 6 or 7 brood frames are drawn and full then it's about time to add another brood or half and give them more space, hence why I added the additional space when I did.

Sure there's only one in there?

I agree with John: too much space. Do what you can to consolidate to one box and get a frame of BIAS in there asap.

I guess it's possible there is more than one. They would have had sufficient time between the queen being released and me getting back from holidays and inspecting for a new queen to have been reared. I went into the hive looking for a marked queen, so didn't really think to look for an unmarked one. There were no evidence of recently emerged queen though (no opened queen cells).

I have one super on above the QE which is half full of honey. Should I pull the half brood box and move any frames with stores from there into the super? That way the bees will have access to these stores still?

 

[ericbeaumont]

I went into the hive looking for a marked queen, so didn't really think to look for an unmarked one.

I did the same last week when loading a nuc to go to a customer: marked the dark queen, checked for BIAS, stores and health, and pulled the last frame out slightly to double-check it had pollen; it did, but I also caught sight of large yellow unmarked queen.

Too late to unpack and choose another colony to raid, so I rang the customer to advise to leave well alone for three weeks, just in case. He was pleased to get the bonus event.

PS: no opened QCs anywhere.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Should I pull the half brood box and move any frames with stores from there into the super?

I'm confused.

You can't put brood frames into a super.
You can take out the 4 foundations from the BB and put in the 4 shallow frames with drone brood.

PS: memo for next year: go for double brood instead, which gives the same amount of work as you have currently, but greater space and completely flexible frame management.

 

[Adamski20]

I'm confused.

You can't put brood frames into a super.
You can take out the 4 foundations from the BB and put in the 4 shallow frames with drone brood.

Ah, okay, gotcha.