Is it safe to split the hive in August?

[john1]

My hive is full. I can see bees in the brood and both supers.
Is it safe to split the hive in August in the UK?
If I remove one of the supers, I believe the brood and the remaining super will be nearly full.
Thanks

 

[drex]

The answer is it depends. What do you mean by " full"? If I could not see bees in my boxes I would be very worried. How many frames of brood are there. How many honey supers are on there?

 

[john1]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have a National Brood Box with 11 frames with eggs and honey.
I have 2 supers with 10+10 frames with honey.
I am planning to collect honey from one of the supers.

This is a new colony. I bought it in May this year with 8 brood frames.
I believe the queen is a laying queen.

My plan was to take 4 brood frames to another national brood box with some bees on it hoping a new queen will be produced.
If it works then I will have one more colony next year.

Not sure whether this is a good idea. Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Wilco]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have a National Brood Box with 11 frames with eggs and honey.
I have 2 supers with 10+10 frames with honey.
I am planning to collect honey from one of the supers.

This is a new colony. I bought it in May this year with 8 brood frames.
I believe the queen is a laying queen.

My plan was to take 4 brood frames to another national brood box with some bees on it hoping a new queen will be produced.
If it works then I will have one more colony next year.

Not sure whether this is a good idea. Thank you so much for your help.

If splitting I'd either take the Queen and a couple of frames into a nuc box or if completely splitting, put each half into a nuc box and feed for the next few weeks.

 

[mbc]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have a National Brood Box with 11 frames with eggs and honey.
I have 2 supers with 10+10 frames with honey.
I am planning to collect honey from one of the supers.

This is a new colony. I bought it in May this year with 8 brood frames.
I believe the queen is a laying queen.

My plan was to take 4 brood frames to another national brood box with some bees on it hoping a new queen will be produced.
If it works then I will have one more colony next year.

Not sure whether this is a good idea. Thank you so much for your help.

Terrible idea just splitting and hoping for a successful emergency queen to succeed at this stage in the game. You'd have a much better chance of success splitting and introducing a mated queen to the queen less portion, but even then in a same apiary split the flyers will go back to the original hive site and leave the other part vulnerable to wasp attack until the colony achieves a balanced population as the young bees mature, they certainly wouldn't benefit from a month plus without a laying queen as even if it works and they produce a half decent virgin it'll probably take a few weeks for her to get mated then a further three weeks for her brood to hatch, that timeline looks to me to be September before they increase and bees are naturally declining by then, at least made up with emerging brood and a mated queen they'd have a chance to achieve a balanced population before robbing pressure from wasps and other bees becomes an issue for weaker colonies.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is it safe to split the hive in August in the UK?

I guess you mean: will a queen be mated safely in August?

Perhaps, is the answer. As drones are evicted the % chance of effective mating is reduced. Ineffective mating will reveal itself in spring when you find a drone-laying queen or laying workers (queen not returned from mating).

Worry also about wasps, which will predate weak colonies from late summer well into late autumn.

Better option is to keep the colony strong and split when booming next season, at which time you'll get effective mating and strong colonies.

Just read MBC's post: he's right.

 

[CaptainCymru]

Terrible idea just splitting and hoping for a successful emergency queen to succeed at this stage in the game. You'd have a much better chance of success splitting and introducing a mated queen to the queen less portion, but even then in a same apiary split the flyers will go back to the original hive site and leave the other part vulnerable to wasp attack until the colony achieves a balanced population as the young bees mature, they certainly wouldn't benefit from a month plus without a laying queen as even if it works and they produce a half decent virgin it'll probably take a few weeks for her to get mated then a further three weeks for her brood to hatch, that timeline looks to me to be September before they increase and bees are naturally declining by then, at least made up with emerging brood and a mated queen they'd have a chance to achieve a balanced population before robbing pressure from wasps and other bees becomes an issue for weaker colonies.

Wasps are beginning to rob around me now quite heavy,the entrance reduces are on , not so much of an issue with the dark hive at present but the buckfast hive is like a battle ground.I killed 12 wasps in the house alone yest !

 

[drex]

As above, the colony appears strong enough. It could be done, but with a new mated laying queen. I would wait until you are more experienced at judging things. More sensible, as suggested , to wait until late spring next year

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My plan was to take 4 brood frames to another national brood box with some bees on it hoping a new queen will be produced.
If it works then I will have one more colony next year.

It looks like you've been dragged along by the usual suspects found in most BKA's obsessed with splitting colonies just to follow their mantra and have two colonies going into winter.
You are far better making sure your one new colony is healthy, packed with bees and brood and well fed going into winter rather than spend the whole time nursing two mediocre colonies through to the spring.
You say you have eleven frames 'with eggs and honey' exactly what have you got? work out how many frames are equivalent to actually just full of BIAS? the same for stores.
Personally, without knowing more (and even then I doubt it would make any difference) I would say splitting them now is a bad idea

 

[john1]

Thank you all for the replies.
I think it is better I split it next year.
Thank you so much to all of you for the valuable advice.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What you want to do now is decide what varroa treatment you are going to use at the end of the summer, knock the mite numbers right back so as to ensure the healthiest possible winter bees as they will be the ones ensure the colony's spring regeneration.

 

[REDWOOD]

Keep your colonies strong going into winter

 

[oliver90owner]

IF it is that strong, you could use a couple of frames for a nuc - with a mated queen - but very dodgy if expecting emergency queen cells to get a good queen - and in a full box, too.

If you give the wasps half a chance to raid one weak colony they will likely move their attention to a colony close by when the first is finished off.

We saw our first sugar-feeding wasp on Friday at the Game Fair at Ragley Hall. Even so, my wife was only eating a chicken sarnie, so it may have still been looking for protein!

Absolutely no problem with getting queens mated in August. Whoever suggested that needs to think again. Queens can get mated in October (think of late supercedure). It depends on the weather, if that late, but August mating is not a problem (or has never yet been a problem).

 

[Worker bee]

My hive is full. I can see bees in the brood and both supers.
Is it safe to split the hive in August in the UK?
If I remove one of the supers, I believe the brood and the remaining super will be nearly full.
Thanks

If you can get a mated queen go for it if not it's a gamble

 

[SWEET]

My hive is full. I can see bees in the brood and both supers.
Is it safe to split the hive in August in the UK?
If I remove one of the supers, I believe the brood and the remaining super will be nearly full.
Thanks

I'm *splitting some in the next few weeks but they have 15+ frames of brood and I'll be using very good purchased mated queens. Ideally you want your single box hives rammed with bees going into September, you could take a single frame from each hive August for winter Nucs if you've many hives (again using mated queens).

I've a swarmed stock with a newly hatched queen (this week), I'll prob give them a frame or two of brood to get them going while she fires up (all being well).

* (Double Brood)

 

[rolande]

I'm *not* recommending this but Manley, in Honey Farming, had an opinion on something similar although not actually splitting the colony. John Rawson took Manleys advice a step further and added a split once the cells were sealed.

Manley's words:

 

[jeff33]

I usually make nucs after the main flow using mated queens. I would not split and leave a Q- nuc getting on with it now or you risk having a weak colony for the winter.

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have a National Brood Box with 11 frames with eggs and honey.
I have 2 supers with 10+10 frames with honey.
I am planning to collect honey from one of the supers.

This is a new colony. I bought it in May this year with 8 brood frames.
I believe the queen is a laying queen.

My plan was to take 4 brood frames to another national brood box with some bees on it hoping a new queen will be produced.
If it works then I will have one more colony next year.

Not sure whether this is a good idea. Thank you so much for your help.

I would strongly recommend you don't split them. I sense this is your first year of beekeeping. Splitting in August is something to try when you have a lot more experience, as it may require a purchased mated queen, and that isn't something to do in year one.

If you want another colony, split them in Spring next year which is when they want to split themselves.

If you split them now, significantly weakening your existing colony, there is a real risk you come out of winter not with two hives, but with none.

Treat for varroa, make sure they have enough food for winter, and leave them to it.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I'm *not* recommending this but Manley, in Honey Farming, had an opinion on something similar although not actually splitting the colony. John Rawson took Manleys advice a step further and added a split once the cells were sealed.

Manley's words:
View attachment 27517

And he was a thinking man.
By selecting the uncapped cells there wouldn't of been any rush to produce these cells and they would be strong queen's.
I'll have a look at that what page I was only looking at that book last night

 

[rolande]

I'll have a look at that what page I was only looking at that book last night

pp97

As for Rawson although it was personal advice I think he mentioned something about his plan in his own book 'World of a bee farmer'.