Is a standard brood box big enough-typically

[idg]

I seem to be struggling to control the tendencies to swarm. I use a standard brood box and rarely venture into the double brood world. Am I misguided to thing that a single brood should be big enough in general. Do others run on single brood without having to AS a lot?

 

[YorkshireBees]

Congestion / lack of laying space in the brood box is ONLY one influence on swarming.

It is in bees nature to swarm, their natural reproduction cycle.

Personally I prefer one Brood box to going double. I haven't tried 14x12 as I have too much kit in standard deep size and don't want to buy more in a different size + I know how heavy a standard deep box is when full of honey!

 

[B+.]

I seem to be struggling to control the tendencies to swarm. I use a standard brood box and rarely venture into the double brood world. Am I misguided to thing that a single brood should be big enough in general. Do others run on single brood without having to AS a lot?

I think it depends on the bees you have. Some bees would be content in a single National but the more productive queens need more room.
Personally, I use double Langstroth brood chambers as my colonies are far too strong for single Nationals

 

[Finman]

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Even if you do not even use excluder, every hive in your yard can swarm.
The reason is the first rule of life: Reproduce and fill the earth.

Non swarming bee stock is difficult to achieve and keep on. It is much more laborous than making AS and clipping queens.

You may select your queens strictly, that they do not swarm, but in that system dangers of inbreeding is close.

If you accept that swarming is natural habit, and not a mistake of beekeeper, life is much more easier. But if your hives are mad to swarm and AS does not work like it should, beekeeping can be painfull.


Negative person: That worse things cannot be

Positive person: Of course they can

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[TryingToLetThemBee]

I seem to be struggling to control the tendencies to swarm. I use a standard brood box and rarely venture into the double brood world. Am I misguided to thing that a single brood should be big enough in general. Do others run on single brood without having to AS a lot?

Broadly, responding TO YOUR TITLE, not the "misguided" question, No.

 

[Poly Hive]

AMM do fine in a national, Carnies need a double if not more so yep it depends on the bee.

What are you running?

PH

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

AMM do fine in a national, Carnies need a double if not more so yep it depends on the bee.

What are you running?

PH

He asked "typically". Anyone running AMMs is going to know they are doing so and would not have posted this question.

 

[beeno]

Everyone I know on single brood box is in a constant flux of ASing all summer long. There is no such thing as Apis mellifera mellifera bees any more as at best they can only find 35% genetic material to that effect in the bees.
If I decide to expand my beekeeping I shall go wooden double brood no supers.

 

[B+.]

There is no such thing as Apis mellifera mellifera bees any more as at best they can only find 35% genetic material to that effect in the bees.

Broadly speaking, this is true in England but not so in other countries or in the remote Scottish islands.
It is a revelation to work with a pure race of bee mind - A.m.c is prolific and gentle. Hardly a bee flies up when I am inspecting the colonies and they stay put on the comb - none of this running around and dripping off the bottombar nonesense!

 

[domino]

I run a combination of 12x14s and nationals. I tend to end up on double brood pretty often.

 

[Finman]

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50 years ago there were conventinal hives. One brood box and one medium size super. And the hive produced 2 swarm, which you can sell. Yields were that one mediums 15 kg.

Beekeepers who want to earn with bees, they imported good queen outboards and kept bees in langstroths. They got 60-80 kg honey.

When conventional guys tried those commercial queens, queen filled the small hive with brood in a week, and hives owner did not get even that 15 kg. They said that they got nothing.

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It seems that you try to keep out there nice tidy hives, but there are in the air big hive genes, and you have a lottery, what kind of layer you will have.

* When I have read these thousands writings, beekeepers believe that they can control laying with excluder or with number of brood boxes. But it is in genes.

* second mystery is a double brood. Even if brood and half has practically same nest volume, double brood is like to go to the Third World War. You get all difficulties on your neck with double brood.

* and not to mention excluder. It is the core of the whole beekeeping! You cannot keep it away from hive. Even if you do not extract the yield, you must keep it. Then you feed the super as winter food in autumn that bees move capped store to the brood box.


What I want to say, the are such basic beliefs in hobby beekeeping, that much more difficult issues remain under that basic smog.

I think that no one can open hobby beekeepers sailing knots. They are unbelieveable.

But what we have. We have open minded discussion, where we can solve problems, which actually do not exist.

Andddddd.... All those methods during last 160 years... Originals especially....



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[nantmoel]

We are moving over to 14x12 as going through either a double brood or brood and a half is a pain, I know some are going to say you only need to look at the bottoms of the frames for swarm cell, but to be honest bees don't normally follow the rules. A more prolific queen needs more space.

 

[Finman]

We are moving over to 14x12 as going through either a double brood or brood and a half is a pain, I know some are going to say you only need to look at the bottoms of the frames for swarm cell, but .

I look only upper brood box. I use 3 brood boxes.
In lowest bix there are only old evil foragers

Queen cells are in super too. But I do not inspect them.

If they are, you see them in upper brood.

 

[idg]

AMM do fine in a national, Carnies need a double if not more so yep it depends on the bee.

What are you running?

PH

My initial strain is of unknown origin. Since then I have always requeened with buck fasts.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My 14x12 is just about right for my Buckie Queen

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

My 14x12 is just about right for my Buckie Queen

I just had to put the daughter of my @Hivemaker queen onto triple National brood: barely a cell free on double. I have nine QCs off her (the daughter) at present and hope she becomes The Mother, with another HM Q or two to top up the genes at some point.

 

[badger65]

14x12

I use 14x12. You can not stop the swarm instinct, even if they're not ready.

14x12 and the demure method works for me.

Good for production and large colonies.
http://barnsleybeekeepers.org.uk/demaree.html

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

A standard brood box is indeed too small.

Most colonies will be happy in a 14 x12 box in summer;
it's also the right size for overwintering.

The only down side is the weight. But it's always wise to inspect with someone else around.

Dusty

 

[Eyeman]

14x12 and the demure method works for me.

Blimey you've got strong muscles lifting a 14x12 from the top of a Demaree!

I run 8 Double nats, 8 14x12 and some single nats over 4 sites
All have same locally reared stock
So this year:
1. 4 14x12 produced QC's and AS
2. 1 6 frame nuc moved to single nat produced QC's and AS
3. No Double nat have QC's

Possible reasons
1. The 14x12's and Double nats are on different sites with the 14x12's partly covered by trees so local environment may be a factor.
2. The Double nats still had plenty of space on the brood chamber for the queen to lay. I had replaced stores with drawn foundation in the 14x12 to give the queen more space.
3. Last year 6 out of the 8 14x12 needed AS but only 2 of the Double nats.

I enjoy running both hive types. Both have pluses and minuses.

 

[Finman]

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IT should not be difficult to see, how much the Queen needs laying space.

I have in hives altenatives, what I accidentaly put in autumn
I have no rules what I use. Just what is near hand...

styles

- double nuc
- one medium
- double medium
- one langstroth
- double langstroth
- 3 langstroth, because lowest was full of pollen

I have not even considered jumbo. No need.

My langstroth frames are now finish. When I start to enlarge hives at the last week of May, I put super mediums, that queens have space to lay. At this time of year bees do not draw combs. Gang is too young. Bees should be 3 weeks old.

Apples start blooming next week. Prunuses are in full bloom.
.
New bees start to emerge after a week.

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