Is a single Jumbo Langstroth Brood enough to see through winter?

[Falesh]

I am leaning towards getting a poly langstroth hive with a single jumbo for the brood. One of the reasons is that I like the idea of that single chamber holding all the supplies to get the bees through winter so I can safely steal all the honey in the medium bodies. Will that be enough for a hive in York or would I need to keep a medium of honey on top as well?

Cheers!

 

[itma]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm not a Langstroth person, (there will be someone along soon!) - but ...
- yes, a jumbo has capacity for rather more than the standard recommendation of 20kg of stores for the winter.
- in poly, bees would be expected to use less than the traditional wooden-hive winter requirement (giving you even more safety margin, or concern during Spring expansion)
- with Langstroths, you need to be extremely careful with the exact depths of boxes and frames. Internationally sizes are not standardised, let alone to the same names!

 

[drstitson]

jumbo LS or MD brood is equivalent to approx 14x12 or brood and a half. so ideal to over winter. especially in poly.

It's essentially what all italians overwinter on - with cheap pine hives.

 

[chipper]

Have been using these ( L.J) for 30 years and still think I made the best choice at the outset but they may be too big for some Bee strains . Best with Buckfast or Italian.

 

[drstitson]

"but they may be too big for some Bee strains"

can always use the 6 frame MB jumbos for less prolific strains.

 

[Black Comb]

I think they are plenty big enough.
I use them, along with another local beek, and overwinter in a single brood box.
I also have a few standard LS and overwinter these in a single brood.
For the jumbos I run 9 frames + dummy board, the standard with 10 frames.
If the colony is smallish then just dummy it down to 7 or 8 frames and pop some insulation into the gap.
Don't forget that when the queen reduces laying in the autumn the cells are filled with winter stores.
I use cedar boxes so cannot comment on full size poly. As others say, be careful mixing and matching with LS as there are differences between suppliers.

I also us the MB 6 frame poly jumbo LS nucs which I find to be excellent for overwintering smaller colonies. I have never used any of their full size hives.

One other thing to watch is that I understand that the super boxes from MB are dadant depth so take dadant frames and foundation and are therefore heavier than a normal LS. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

 

[Falesh]

Thanks for the info. I plan on using Buckfast so that seems to tie in nicely.

 

[drstitson]

"One other thing to watch is that I understand that the super boxes from MB are dadant depth so take dadant frames and foundation and are therefore heavier than a normal LS. Perhaps someone can confirm this."

yep - they are LS mediums. taller than LS supers (which paradise farms do make and MB can apparently supply on request).

 

[BeeJayBee]

I am leaning towards getting a poly langstroth hive with a single jumbo for the brood. ... Will that be enough for a hive in York or would I need to keep a medium of honey on top as well?

It should be plenty, I use 9 frames + dummy.

I use cedar boxes so cannot comment on full size poly. As others say, be careful mixing and matching with LS as there are differences between suppliers.

One other thing to watch is that I understand that the super boxes from MB are dadant depth so take dadant frames and foundation and are therefore heavier than a normal LS. Perhaps someone can confirm this.

Mine are Swienty, same as sold by Paynes. The supers also take MD shallow frames. I think it's common for poly hives, but is worth checking before buying frames.

You can mix and match the Swienty with cedar boxes, but the outer footprint of the poly box is wider so there's an overlap if a poly super is used above a wooden brood box, vice versa if wooden super used with poly brood box.

Neither Swienty nor standard cedar/woodedn Lang will match the MB boxes, because their boxes are designed so the upper box slots onto the lower one.

 

[user 6228]

BEWARE: thermally its the box at the top that counts.
put a wood super on top of poly and you get no benefit of the poly.

 

[drstitson]

"put a wood super on top of poly and you get no benefit of the poly."

not necessarily a problem when there's a flow on.

over winter - a full Jumbo LS will need no extra boxes.

 

[pargyle]

"put a wood super on top of poly and you get no benefit of the poly."

not necessarily a problem when there's a flow on.

over winter - a full Jumbo LS will need no extra boxes.

Oddly enough I enquired of Derek (by PM) last earlier this week as to whether my next hive (which is going to have supers) should have the supers as well insulated as the brood area ... I was rather thinking the same as you but ...

And he may be along shortly to tell you himself - he made the point that heat in the supers when they are ripening honey in the cells is even more important when you consider the amount of water they have to evaporate to get a super full of capped honey ...

So ... perhaps it's something that has not been considered but should be considered. I'll certainly be incorporating insulation in my supers on the next hive.

 

[drstitson]

poly bottom; wooden top.

sure pargyle BUT (wearing my NBK hat!!!) assisting ripening the harvest is not as critical to the colony as winter survival.

 

[pargyle]

sure pargyle BUT (wearing my NBK hat!!!) assisting ripening the harvest is not as critical to the colony as winter survival.

Well ... you won't get any arguments from me on that !!

However, if they make their honey quicker as a result of warmer supers they will either have to expend less energy doing it so they will have more energy for other things ... or they might make a bit more honey ? Win win situation I think ...