Invert sugar or not?

[Terry G]

Read somewhere - can't remember where - that bees prefer ordinary 1:1 at this time of year rather than invert sugar. Is that so?

 

[Finman]

That has nothing to do with facts.

And bees do not need inverted sugar because their enzymes split sucrose however.

Bees do not like to suck syrup if they get enough nectar from flowers.

 

[galileo]

Some sources claim that invert sugar how we do it, can be harmful. Perhaps if it's started to caramelise.... Anyway, I hope I'm right in saying that 1:1 they can use pretty much straight away, whereas 2:1 they can more easily store 'cos there's less water to evaporate. I sit to be corrected though, as ever.

 

[itma]

Terry - the basic question is: why are you feeding?

An established colony *shouldn't* be needing feeding now. (Though one of mine is full of brood and light on stores - like I might expect at the beginning of April, rather than mid-May.)
However, caught swarms certainly benefit from feeding, and judicious feeding can help the development of a nuc to a full colony -- but beware overfeeding causing brood blocking.

Beekeepers generally prefer the cheapest feed. Which is plain sugar (sucrose) syrup.
Nectar naturally contains variable amounts of glucose and fructose.
Providing invert syrup (like Ambrosia) certainly won't do any harm.
It is of benefit for late-Autumn feeding, (not least because the bees can use it later in the season than sucrose syrup).
The economic benefit is sufficient that 2,000 hive owners (and some 3 hive owners) think it worth paying for (it is cheaper than honey!)
However, that doesn't really apply at this time of the year.

If you have some Ambrosia left over from the winter, by all means use it (though it should happily store until the Autumn - another advantage), but don't look for benefits other than turning over old stock.

The Spring 'preference' for ordinary sugar syrup is more beekeeper than bees, and essentially cost-based.

 

[itma]

Some sources claim that invert sugar how we do it, can be harmful. Perhaps if it's started to caramelise.... Anyway, I hope I'm right in saying that 1:1 they can use pretty much straight away, whereas 2:1 they can more easily store 'cos there's less water to evaporate. I sit to be corrected though, as ever.

Homebrew acid inversion of sugar (using lemon, tartar, etc) can potentially be harmful to the bees.
Not worth bothering with, imho.

Strong syrup is more easily stored. (As is invert syrup.)
Thinner syrup is potentially more readily/quickly used.

 

[Finman]

Some sources claim .

there serious honey bee nutrition reseach in the world and none of them recommends to invert sugar....because it is not needed.

Nectar has sucrose too, sometimes 25%, but bee's enzymes split ti to glucose and fructose.

Some one said or wrote in beekeeping, that has no prove value.
.

 

[Little John]

Homebrew acid inversion of sugar (using lemon, tartar, etc) can potentially be harmful to the bees.
Not worth bothering with, imho.

I've never seen the advantage of partially inverting sucrose - only a very small percentage is inverted, the lion's share isn't - so why bother ?
Seems to me that the potential disadvantages significantly outweigh any dubious advantages.

LJ

 

[itma]

...
Nectar has sucrose too, sometimes 25%, but bee's enzymes split ti to glucose and fructose.
...

One point to bear in mind is that enzyme inversion of sucrose is not a very rapid process.

In confectionary manufacture, a fondant paste is coated with chocolate. Then, over days and weeks, invertase can transform the paste into a 'liquid' centre.
I'm sure you always wondered how they could possibly make those runny-centred chocolates!
Anyway, the inversion process is very far from instant.

At some times of the year (like late autumn) that time-delay could be important, but not now.



I'd agree with Finman that invert isn't needed - particularly at this time of the year.

However, I'm happy to accept ITLD's experience that the expense of invert bee syrup is economically justifiable. The benefits are real and measurable in money terms.
For completeness, it should be noted that ITLD gets his syrup in vast quantities at a rather lower cost than we can hope for!

 

[Terry G]

Terry - the basic question is: why are you feeding?
.

I'm feeding Ambrosia cos I've just installed a package and that's the advice I got. And now it's cold and wet so I reckon they probably need it?
I'm a total novice riding on a vertical learning curve at the mo!

 

[Winker]

there serious honey bee nutrition reseach in the world and none of them recommends to invert sugar....because it is not needed.

Nectar has sucrose too, sometimes 25%, but bee's enzymes split ti to glucose and fructose.

Some one said or wrote in beekeeping, that has no prove value.
.

Your full of crap as per normal when it come to this topic.

Try reading this Journal of Apicultural Science Here

There is strong evidence that inverted syrup is beneficial to the bees you just refuse to see it because you don't want to.


Remember this :

 

[Winker]

Ps I use inverted syrup, and only inverted syrup now. I don't do the 2:1 or the 1:1 and the bees don't care, if they need it they take if they don't they leave it.

Nice thing is it does not go mouldy like sugar syrup does and can be left on the hive all year round if need be, albeit they don't take it down in winter time. at which point I use fondant.

I just did a 3 way split on a large hive and fed them all with Inverted syrup and they are doing great building comb and taking it down with great enthusiasm.

If bought by the ton from Pay*** it can work out cheaper than buy the sugar and mixing it yourself.

Bedfordshire Beekeeping Association now endorse the use of it all year round in the beekeeping season.

 

[itma]

I'm feeding Ambrosia cos I've just installed a package and that's the advice I got. And now it's cold and wet so I reckon they probably need it?
I'm a total novice riding on a vertical learning curve at the mo!

Yes feed them.
Ambrosia is in the 'council of perfection' category. 1:1 sugar would be fine.

If they are nearby (like the back garden) and you are using a small (4 pint?) feeder, then there should be no harm in thinning the Ambrosia slightly - like 2 parts Ambrosia to 1 of water, to further encourage them to get on with comb-drawing and home-making.

BUT it is important that you don't let the feeder go empty. Keep the food available, and you can hope they will continue comb-drawing once they have started. However, once they stop, you won't restart them. They'll just do a little when they think it is needed.
So, try to avoid a break in the supply of fuel.

I, being me, would insulate over the feeder to make the hive warmer and thus make it easier (less energy-expensive) for the bees to make wax.
Others wouldn't bother, but it should help and can't harm, so I do.

Good luck!

 

[Terry G]

The thing that worries me (one of the many things!) is that they have been in the hive for 10 days now and haven't taken any syrup at all, despite the feeder now being down on the frames. Which is why I was wondering about the type of syrup, as everyone said they should be knocking it back by the gallon t this stage but mine seem to be ignoring it entirely. They were out foraging for about 10 hours yesterday and bringing in quite a lot of pollen, though the rain and cold today has kept them mostly indoors today.

 

[itma]

The thing that worries me (one of the many things!) is that they have been in the hive for 10 days now and haven't taken any syrup at all, despite the feeder now being down on the frames. Which is why I was wondering about the type of syrup, as everyone said they should be knocking it back by the gallon t this stage but mine seem to be ignoring it entirely. They were out foraging for about 10 hours yesterday and bringing in quite a lot of pollen, though the rain and cold today has kept them mostly indoors today.

If there is plenty nectar available, they'll probably prefer that - especially if you have used the Ambrosia undiluted - even though that is the normal way. (Normally you'd be wanting them to store it, rather than consume it immediately and use the energy in wax-building.)
// the good thing is that Ambrosia, unlike 1:1 sugar syrup, will not go mouldy if it is ignored for a few days

You haven't described your feeder.
If it is a 'rapid' type (bees need to go up and over), then you may need to point out to them that it is there (especially if everything is new and doesn't smell of bees! You'd get them interested by dribbling some syrup down the sides of the bee-tunnel. Some people dip a leaf in the syrup and then stuff that down the hole. Ambrosia (and pure sugar syrup) has no smell, so the bees can't know it is there until they happen to wander into it. Give them a trail to follow!

 

[Bob Bee]

Your full of crap as per normal when it come to this topic.

Try reading this Journal of Apicultural Science Here

There is strong evidence that inverted syrup is beneficial to the bees you just refuse to see it because you don't want to.


Remember this :

Can we have a whole series......

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Your full of crap as per normal when it come to this topic.

Try reading this Journal of Apicultural Science Here

There is strong evidence that inverted syrup is beneficial to the bees you just refuse to see it because you don't want to.


Remember this :

Can we have a whole series......

 

[Finman]

Your full of crap as per normal when it come to this topic.

Try reading this Journal of Apicultural Science Here

There is strong evidence that inverted syrup is beneficial to the bees you just refuse to see it because you don't want to.

nonsense. In this research they compared 5 different inverted sugar to each other. They did not researched, are inverted sugars better to wintering food than cane sugar.

Strong evidence? How in heck?

The they measured how much hives have brood after winter. And we know that sugar does not affect on brood rearing.

Actually they researched, do inverted syrups have harmfull chemicals after prosessing.

Winker please, read again what they were doing in that reseach.

.they did not even have common cane sugar in their test.

 

[Finman]

Ps I use inverted syrup, and only inverted syrup now.


.... and can be left on the hive all year round if need be, albeit they don't take it down in winter time. at which point I use fondant.

well, it seems that you process honey from inverted sugar. That is not bad idea at all. - all the year around.

.a nice trick to avoid sucrose analysis, if you have added sugar to honey.

 

[Winker]

nonsense. In this research they compared 5 different inverted sugar to each other. They did not researched, are inverted sugars better to wintering food than cane sugar.

Strong evidence? How in heck?

The they measured how much hives have brood after winter. And we know that sugar does not affect on brood rearing.

Actually they researched, do inverted syrups have harmfull chemicals after prosessing.

Winker please, read again what they were doing in that reseach.

.they did not even have common cane sugar in their test.

Guess you didn't read it then, nice try though

 

[Winker]

well, it seems that you process honey from inverted sugar. That is not bad idea at all. - all the year around.

.a nice trick to avoid sucrose analysis, if you have added sugar to honey.

I don't take any honey from the brood box and I only feed the bees if they need feeding. There is no point in feeding bees who have a hive full of honey is there?

Nice try again old man, but you need to try harder