Introducing Queens

[bobba]

I have 2 hives I believed to be queen-less.

I put a caged queen in each hive on Friday.

When I put the queens in, the bees in either hive barley paid attention to them.

I had a check today and here is how they were reacting:
(I apologize in advance for the poor camera work)

Hive 1:
https://vimeo.com/user101731188/review/353265816/2cf3a24809

Hive2:
https://vimeo.com/user101731188/review/353254639/2d6017f9d7

The cages were hung between the frames, I just lifted them out to film them.

So how do you guys think it looks? Why so little attention in hive 1? And are they being kind or mean in hive 2?

Thanks as always.

 

[Walrus]

those links don't seem to be working

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have 2 hives I believed to be queen-less.

I put a caged queen in each hive on Friday.





So how do you guys think it looks? Why so little attention in hive 1? And are they being kind or mean in hive 2?

Thanks as always.

You believe
Have you checked with a test frame?


I can't see video because links don't work as Walrus says
If the bees on the cage are paying little attention or even trying to feed the queen you're OK to break the tab and put the cage back
If bees are stuck on the cage and difficult to remove then that queen is not being accepted so you will have to hang it back and have a look in a few more days.......or they have a queen?

 

[XYZ]

I just cut the link down to the user number bit and two videos become available - https://vimeo.com/user101731188

 

[Erichalfbee]

I wouldn’t be breaking the tab on the cage covered in bees
I reiterate
Have you done a test frame?

 

[madasafish]

I normally refuse to sell queens to beginners without prior inspection by myself. So far this year out of 3 cases where beginners "needed" new queens, all three had queens...

Test frame..

 

[enrico]

Bobba
It is such a common mistake to believe your hives are queenless.
They DO go off lay for various reasons, or they DO get superceded and it all takes time for them to get going again. Patience is a virtue in this game!
E

 

[bobba]

Thanks for all the replys.

Sorry for the dodgy links, hopefully these should work better:

Hive 1:
https://vimeo.com/user101731188

Hive2:
https://vimeo.com/user101731188

I said I believe the hives to be queer less - but am not 100% sure.

Unfortunately I have not tried a test frame, as these are my only hives and nether has any brood or eggs. So a test frame was not an option.

The last time I saw eggs/uncapped brood in Hive 1 was 13/7/19

Hive 2 was a swarm from hive 1. However I thought the queen and most the swarm escaped leaving me with a queen-less swarm. The swarm was boxed on 20/7/19.

I have been through both boxes several times and not seen any queens or indicators. However I am a noob!

I normally refuse to sell queens to beginners without prior inspection by myself. So far this year out of 3 cases where beginners "needed" new queens, all three had queens...

Test frame..

I think that is very kind of you.

I knew when I bought the queens that I may have virgins lurking in the hives. But I paid my money and took my chances. The season end is drawing closer so I did what I thought seemed the sure fire route to ensure both hives are queen right.

Anyway - hopeful you can all see the vids now and let me now what you think.

Thanks as always.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Test frame
You don’t need a whole frame
The advantage of either having a mentor or belonging to an association is that you can beg eggs and young larvae. You just cut a circle of brood out with a biscuit cutter and insert into an identical gap made in your test hive.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have used a graft in the past successfully as a "test frame" and one should ALWAYS test before splashing out on queens for the "queenless hive" which rarely is.

It's a truism that it is actually pretty rare to have queenless hives unless you the beekeeper have done it.

PH

 

[bobba]

Test frame
You don’t need a whole frame
The advantage of either having a mentor or belonging to an association is that you can beg eggs and young larvae. You just cut a circle of brood out with a biscuit cutter and insert into an identical gap made in your test hive.

I know about test frames. The biscuit cutter is a good idea. Unfortunately I do not have a mentor, nor am member of an association. So faced with 2 potentially queen-less hives and no assess to eggs or larva, I felt the queens were my best option.

I just wanted to make sure my bees were ok.

Can anyone confirm if the links are working now?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I know about test frames. The biscuit cutter is a good idea. Unfortunately I do not have a mentor, nor am member of an association. So faced with 2 potentially queen-less hives and no assess to eggs or larva, I felt the queens were my best option.

I just wanted to make sure my bees were ok.

Can anyone confirm if the links are working now?

Yes they are
like I said, the first queen is probably OK
The second not. The bees seem to be attacking the cage.
You have two options, return the cage to the hive as is for a few more days and try again or put the queen into a push in cage and again look in a few days. The push in cage goes over some emerging brood and some food. As the brood emerges the new bees accept their new queen and she lays up the empty cells. She is more likely to be accepted the way. However, if there is a queen she won't be accepted unless you find the missing queen

 

[Repwoc]

You could try sieving the colony through a queen excluder. If there's a queen in there, she should get caught on the excluder. You can then squish her and try introducing your new mated queen after they have been Q- for 24 hours.

 

[bobba]

Thanks guys.

I plan to have another look. If they are not paying nice I will most likely try sieving.

If there is a queen in there then she will be an f2 buck. So if possible I would prefer them to adopt the new queen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Whatever happens let us all know. It's good to have feedback, it's how we all learn

 

[bobba]

This is hive 2 again (Tuesday 6pm)

https://vimeo.com/user101731188

There were more bees on the cage but just before I started filming a waft of smoke blew over from my smoker atop the other hive. The tiny waft of smoke was enough to get most of them off the cage. Last time I tried intentionally smoking them off the queen cage and they would not budge. I thought they seemed friendly this time. They were calm and all trying to feed or just chilling.

I took the plug off the slow release side of the cage and poped it back.

So fingers crossed for now.......

In the original video, the quality is so poor I now its hard to see. But when actually looking I could see 1 or 2 bees trying to feed their caged pals, some were holding on tight and trying to chew the cage and most were charging around like nutters, I could not actually see any trying to sting. But they were kind of acting a bit frantic. I could not tell if they were being friendly or aggressive.

I was wondering, if there was a virgin lurking in the hive, is it possible that the bees could decide they like the new mated queen better?

Any advice on what I should do next is welcome, how lone before I should inspect etc?

Thanks as always.

 

[Swarm]

It's not always easy and being absolutely sure of colony status helps no end but there are no guarantees, all you can do is sway matters in your favour.
I favour a nucleus made up of young bees and sealed/emerging brood.
Any bees on the cage should be easy to move with a finger.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was wondering, if there was a virgin lurking in the hive, is it possible that the bees could decide they like the new mated queen better?

Any advice on what I should do next is welcome, how lone before I should inspect etc?

Thanks as always.

If there is another queen in the hive the bees will kill your introduced queen. There is no choice for them to make.
Look in a week.

 

[Dariusz]

Im new but alot of expirience from this year and similar worrys like you. from your videos ,especially last one film 99% you have queen or virgin queen in this hives,bees are calm and quiet,not worrying about you and surrounding environment even open hive not make them angry at all,if you try introduce new queen -the virgin queen very quickly terminate her just after try to leave the cage,in one of my hives i had similar sytuation(my patience going to run out after 4 weeks from hatch i put in there queen cell ,next day nothing leftover from this cell,
and most important if you dont have queen ,inside hive its really really loud buzzing like hornet nest or jet engine ,but in your film its nothink like that ,hope i help a bit

 

[Beersmith]

I am inexperienced too, and had a very similar experience. Started this spring and after initial good progress my inexperience resulted in me missing some warning signs and I lost a swarm.

This coincided with a period when the local weather was dreadful. Cold, very windy and frequently wet for days on end. After a while I began to worry that the colony was queenless. I checked the calendar and using the available information about time for a queen to emerge, mating flights, time to start laying etc was pretty worried that any new queen had failed to make a successful mating flight.

Got my mentor to check and he admitted to not being entirely sure but agreed probably queenless. Plenty of stores but no eggs, no larvae, no brood and a long careful look at every frame finding no signs of a queen. So I did as you did and purchased a replacement queen. Now well established, the colony is noticeably different. The bees are calmer and with a much higher proportion with a golden tinge compared to the older bees. These were much darker and while not aggressive were certainly more easily upset.

On my training course one of the themes that came up repeatedly was that all beekeepers make mistakes and as a beginner you would be certain to make a few. You seem to have acted logically, thought carefully about what you were doing and acted accordingly. I hope it all works out well.

Cheers