Introducing a Queen

[Beedogg]

There seems to be conflicting advice in the books. So, a question:
I have a large Q- colony and a Q+ nuc. I'm contemplating introducing the queen from the nuc into the Q- colony.
How long do I leave her in the queen cage in the new colony before releasing her onto the frames?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

why not just unite the nuc to the Q- colony?

 

[Erichalfbee]

 

[Beedogg]

Because (and again, this is Books for yer..) the ones I read said that the Q+ colony should go on top. And the smaller one should go on top. My Q+ nuc is obviously smaller than the Q- colony, so I was a little confused.

I think that I'd prefer to unite - but I've never done it before.
So, nuc frames into a BB on the stand. Newspaper under a QE. Then the BB with the main Q- colony on top. That's it..?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes
It actually doesn’t matter which colony goes on top. It depends where you want the colony to be in your apiary.
I do prefer to put the smaller colony on top ONLY if that’s the queenright one. I feel she’s safer up there

 

[Murox]

and others say .........."The colony without a queen should always be united on top of the queen right colony, not the other way around."
and .....the cushman site says........"I have united many colonies using the newspaper method and had few problems. I have found it doesn't matter whether the queen is in the top or bottom box, but I think it is better to have the stronger colony on the bottom."

 

[Beedogg]

I suppose that the only reason I was hesitating was that I considered the scenario where the smaller Q+ colony was in the bottom BB. Whilst the newspaper regulates the 'meeting' of the bees in the upper BB with those new ones in the lower BB, the returning foragers will all tend to come into the lower BB and I was hesitant because I was concerned that that might cause a problem.

With that in mind, would it be best to do the uniting in the evening when most of the foragers are at home and will therefore be above the newspaper?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

matters not a jot whether the Q+ colony goes on top or beneath, doesn't really matter whether the largest or the smallest goes on top.
I find the choice of which colony goes on top all depends on which colony is staying in the same spot and which colony needs to be moved.
As most unites tend to be adding a new queen from a nuc to an established colony in situ, then it's natural that the smaller one goes on top - but not mandatory or neccessary

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

With that in mind, would it be best to do the uniting in the evening

handy but again, not neccessary I do my unites when it's convenient for me, in other words, whenever I happen to be at that particular apiary

 

[Beedogg]

OK thanks. I'll give it a go.

And, final question (I doubt...), the test frame that I put in 4 days ago should come out at the same time if, as I anticipate, they've started building EQCs already?

 

[Erichalfbee]

And while we are talking about what’s supposed to happen I shook a small colony out a few days ago. They went to the hive next to them and there was carnage. Hundreds of dead bees in front of the hive and on the hive floor the next morning. Thankfully the queen was safe on the frame furthest from the entrance.

 

[ericbeaumont]

there was carnage

Is there a flow on?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No….which is the obvious answer. But what if you have to do the deed when there is no income.
I smoked them all and made sure they had tucked their noses into honey.
As an aside
I united a small colony with air freshener. @enrico has advocated that for a long time. It went like a breeze

 

[StephenT]

And while we are talking about what’s supposed to happen I shook a small colony out a few days ago. They went to the hive next to them and there was carnage. Hundreds of dead bees in front of the hive and on the hive floor the next morning. Thankfully the queen was safe on the frame furthest from the entrance.

I did the same with a nuc that was on its way out and they all seemed to go into the nearest hive with no fighting at all. They were mother and daughter queens but were split last year.

On the main subject of the thread, we (re)united a nuc back with the original double brood hive by taking out 4 frames, squirt of air freshner and then inserting 4 frames from the nuc with the queen, bees and brood. It worked but not sure how much of a difference it made that they had only been separated for 2 weeks. Gonna check them again this afternoon.

 

[castanea]

Hi
Lot of people say when adding a Queen or uniting use Air Freshener.
is that not toxic for the bees? Would essential oils not be better?
Do you just give a quick spray over the top bars.
Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

Quick spray over top and bottom bars

 

[castanea]

Thanks for the quick reply and advice.
I have a Nuc introduced a Queen no QCells she was accepted, no sooner no Queen they used her eggs to make new QC.
is this normal

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for the quick reply and advice.
I have a Nuc introduced a Queen no QCells she was accepted, no sooner no Queen they used her eggs to make new QC.
is this normal

it does happen fairly frequently

 

[jeff33]

You may soon learn that too much reliance on what the book say will lead to tears. As others, unite putting your nuc on top, transfer into a BB for perfect fit.
If you take the queen from the nuc you are making another hive Q- for no reason.

 

[Beedogg]

As a matter of interest, when I did the Unite earlier today I had a quick look at the test frame I'd put in 4 days ago. I found that the bees appear to have stripped it of all the eggs and larvae except for 3 cells which were forming into EQCs. Is that normal?