insulation in hive

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irishguy

Field Bee
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
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Location
ireland
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
2 over wintered nucs
Why is it I havent came across a hive with insulation all over the hive rather than just in the roof. I know heat rises an all that but surely that extra heat will just get sucked out the sides. Can anyone shed some light on this matter for me
 
I know heat rises an all that but surely that extra heat will just get sucked out the sides. Can anyone shed some light on this matter for me

Yes loads of heat lost through the sides and the gaping hole in the bottom if using an open mesh floor, even more heat lost if using screws to hold the hive together, rather than nails...neither is really very suitable, just glue would be better.
 
Why is it I havent came across a hive with insulation all over the hive rather than just in the roof. I know heat rises an all that but surely that extra heat will just get sucked out the sides. Can anyone shed some light on this matter for me

Are you talking about a commercially sold hive or one that has been specially built ?

You don't have to look far on this forum to find at least two people who run highly insulated hives .... DerekM and me for a start !
 
Why is it I havent came across a hive with insulation all over the hive rather than just in the roof. I know heat rises an all that but surely that extra heat will just get sucked out the sides. Can anyone shed some light on this matter for me

The insulation is to stop heat loss through the roof and consequential condensation above the bees at the crown board, and reinforce the natural condensation of water vapour below the cluster ( dont believe Wedmore)

if you want to go full insulation then go polyhive they have high insualtion properties to all areas
 
Are you talking about a commercially sold hive or one that has been specially built ?

You don't have to look far on this forum to find at least two people who run highly insulated hives .... DerekM and me for a start !

I have a few sheets of 4inch xtratherm insulation over from when I built my house. Maybe I could insulate one completely out of the 3 hives I'm making just to see if it preforms better
 
Why is it I havent came across a hive with insulation all over the hive rather than just in the roof. I know heat rises an all that but surely that extra heat will just get sucked out the sides. Can anyone shed some light on this matter for me

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Why is it I havent came across a hive with insulation all over the hive rather than just in the roof.-

Clearly you had not looked hard enough. Polystyrene hives have been around over thirty years.

Clearly you do not quite understand simple basic lphysics; ALL the heat in a hive is lost from the hive EVERY DAY, no matter what material it might be made of.

One of the main reasons why timber is still often used is structural stability. Others in the past may have been cost, availability of materials, non standardisation and environmental (recently).

My oh my, here you are on the internet and yet you have not explored the beekeeping information; not even on this site! 'Goggle' Beehaus (not actually that well insulated) or omlette(wrong sp but will do) hive. Goggle Sweinty, beehive suppliers or modern beekeeping hives, even paines or park(s) beekeeping All should be flagged up, and there in front of your eyes in your own home. There are a few others like appimaye, arbelo and trees.

Is that enough light? Remember thermal energy is moved into or from by only three basic routes, conduction, convection and radiation. One can minimise but never eradicate them. Of course, the bees are a bit clever, in that they actually only heat the cluster so the heat transferred to the hive is minimised. Sharper than the average first-world humans who heat the house, you might say.

Remember that simple basic Law of Energy Conservation: Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Have to also remember that mass is just an alternatve form of energy, first postulated and quantified by Einstein, only just over a century ago.

Perhaps you even need to get hold of a good (modern) book on beekeeping. Plastic hives should at least have a mention, if not some pictures.

RAB
 
50mm for a full size colony gives insulation similar to a tree. For smaller colonies they need more insulation to achieve the same heat loss level per bee.
 
You will need a bigger roof. If you get water between the wood and the foam a it could freeze and b it could trigger the wood to start rotting.

SteveJ

it wont freeze inside... this side of -20C the roof is waterproof it is tape sealed inside and out for insulation purposes...a sheet of ally on the top is to only prevent pooling on the foil surface, and damage from birds landing on it.

water wood rotting ? how is that different from rain on an exposed hive?
 
it wont freeze inside... this side of -20C th

Of course it will freeze, even at -1, if there is not a supply of thermal energy within! But there again, from where would the condensation arise and I doubt wood rots very quickly at -20 Celsius, anyway!

Bee colonies do die out for other reasons, you know! Insulation does not guarantee winter survival in all cases. Things need to be kept in perspective. Now, is it nailed or screwed? No, don't bother to reply.
 
The insulation is to stop heat loss through the roof and consequential condensation above the bees at the crown board, and reinforce the natural condensation of water vapour below the cluster ( dont believe Wedmore)

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=9491&d=1390522898

That second paper strikes me as a very odd experiment ... putting sheets of metal above and below the frames in order to collect condensation ... now, I'm no scientist but isn't metal one of the best conductors of heat ... I don't know many beekeepers who have hives with metal plates in them ... most hives are (and have always been) constructed from low thermal conductance materials. I would have thought that metal sheets inside the hive would have been a cause of condensation as well as a method of measuring it ?

My fully insulated hive has a mesh floor and an 8mm polycarbonate crownbaord sealed to the top of the hive immediately over the frames, and there's 100mm Kingspan on top of that. I see no condensation forming inside the hive ....
 
"Why is it I havent came across a hive with insulation all over the hive rather than just in the roof"

as per rab - plenty of commercial poly hives available and used.

top insulation is a cheap simple compromise to improve the situation in wood without going OTT.

you could just as why you don't see people with hives indoors over winter.
 
how is that different from rain on an exposed hive?

Essentially you have moisture trapped between the foam and the wood. Without the foam the wood will dry out on the surface quicker. With the foam you have trapped moisture and a colony keeping it warm which would provide optimum conditions for mould. You get a similar problem if you've had the roof of your house spray foamed without a vapour barrier.

SteveJ
 
Another thing to bear in mind is that if your winter colony occupies say 7-9 frames your outer frames won't have many bees on them. These themselves act as pretty good insulation at the side of the hive, an empty frame will contain cells full of trapped air, which is about the best insulator you can get.

I know it rarely gets really cold in this part of the country, but I think insulation all around the hive is unnecessary.
 
I know it rarely gets really cold in this part of the country, but I think insulation all around the hive is unnecessary.

Somerset is tropical.. when it's -5C and the wind is blowing hard, the wind chill factor makes it more like -25C around here..
 
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