Inside or outside the hive?

[oliver90owner]

An intersting concept. Some think under the roof is inside the hive. I don't, but I wonder what others think 'inside the hive' means. Anyone?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Under the crown board

 

[Travelator]

The bees definitely consider the roof space to be "outside" (although they sometimes occupy it if they get really desperate and they have access). For beekeeping purposes, I definitely regard the roof space as "outside"

However, I wouldn't take issue with other people referring to the roof space as "inside" - it's usually obvious what they're trying to say.

 

[Teemore]

Under the crown board

Is that a spare one? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

RAB - is this going to turn into a discussion about "top" ventilation or where to put varroa treatments?

If someone mentions "inside the hive", I automatically think about the bit with the bees in. I visualize the bees, frames and BIAS.

EDIT - just read Travelator's post - looks like we are thinking along the same lines...

 

[Nige.Coll]

Inside could be taken as anywhere the bees have access to.

As others have said inside to me means below the crownboard.

 

[oliver90owner]

No, I was really referring to 'leaky' hive roofs, or wasps etc taking quiet refuge in the roof space before returning for more nosh from a weak colony.

Inside, for me, is def like JBM - underneath the solid crownboard.

Bees do not attack intruders in the roof space for one of perhaps several reasons. Perhaps overwhelmed by wasp attack - so is it a good idea to operate in such a manner? Perhaps because the bees consider they are gone from the hive, but clearly there is another entry to try to police - and usually rather more than a couple beespces in size.

Maybe the beginners should be thinking more about the possibilities and rammifications of their decisions, based on the above suggestion?

Maybe wasp invasion could be reduced ? Thought it may prompt some discussion with some thoughts on the subject.

RAB

 

[Pete D]

As others have said inside to me means below the crownboard.

Ditto

ie supers above the crown board with the feeder hole partially uncovered to allow them access to clean them and bring the honey residues back into the hive. These supers I consider to be outside.

 

[madasafish]

As far as I know, the Borg considered the Hive to stop at the surface of the cube. Rather like bees.

 

[Finman]

.
Perhaps the issue revieles what somebody is going to say.
But inside the hive is quite clear, what it means. There are no alternatives.
Bees are or not are inside the hive.

 

[oliver90owner]

We know that wax moth gain easy entrance to the hive and are likely accepted once they smell 'right'. Usual entry is at night, I would suggest, particularly if the colony is weak and/or with a wide entrance. They certainly do not gain acess via the roof space on my hives, even though the roofs are not necessarily all proof to wax moth entry, but they could if the outside at the top of the hive is really considered inside? Err, if you see what I mean!

 

[Dared]

As far as I know, the Borg considered the Hive to stop at the surface of the cube. Rather like bees.

Beekeeper and a treky thats sad

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Under the crown board or feeder board if being used. If a feeder board is granting access to frames for cleaning, you would hope the bees agree with the demarcation.

 

[Hawklord]

Would the loft of a house be considered inside or outside?

 

[enrico]

Would the loft of a house be considered inside or outside?

Inside if it has a train set in it and outside if it has a wasps nest in it!

 

[Dishmop]

So has everybody been putting matchsticks in the wrong position all these years?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So has everybody been putting matchsticks in the wrong position all these years?

Yes

 

[oliver90owner]

has everybody been putting matchsticks in the wrong position all these years?

I reckon most have. If I were to use them they would go under the brood box. Because of the weight I use matchstick-thick strip, instead of a large number of matchsticks, to avoid crushing.

One reason for the thread was that when I last suffered wasp attacks (years ago, now), I found them in the roof space on hives with access to it. As I closed off all top space after changing to OMF, I've never really suffered from more than the occasional weak colony being attacked by wasps. So I was wondering whether those that think the roof space is inside the hive could perhaps comment on whether they have had more wax moth or wasp trouble because of it.

Possibly new beeks should be warned to keep the roof space entirely separate, as I and others do.

Needs a lot of thought and consideration but worthy of discussion, I reckon.

RAB

 

[Hawklord]

Wasps

My hives have never suffered with wasps, perhaps thats because I don't take the entrance block out, drop anything in the apiary, or put traps out, so how do wasps gain entry to the roof space - perhaps badly fitting rooves or gaps between supers?

 

[alldigging]

My hives have never suffered with wasps, perhaps thats because I don't take the entrance block out, drop anything in the apiary, or put traps out, so how do wasps gain entry to the roof space - perhaps badly fitting rooves or gaps between supers?

Roof built wrong and not making a seal.
Or wood coming loose and need hammering back.

 

[itma]

… Inside, for me, is def like JBM - underneath the solid crownboard.
…

The definition becomes more awkward when there are holes in the crownboard.
But that's where definition becomes pedantry.

The important consideration if your crownboard has wilful holes is that your roof should be "insect-proof". It should sit flat and accurately onto the crownboard, and the roof vents should have properly-fitted mesh insect guards.
Otherwise, your hive is open at the top. Which isn't a good idea, most of the time.



I tend to speak of storing kit (QX, next super ready to go on, or whatever) under the roof as being 'on' the hive, rather than 'in' it. But I can be over-analytical … … and believe coverboards should not have open holes.