Inherited Bees

[Chris B]

“There are a few rules of thumb that are useful guides. One is that when you are confronted with some problem in the apiary and you do not know what to do, then do nothing. Matters are seldom made worse by doing nothing and are often made much worse by inept intervention.”

The HowTo Do It book of Bee-keeping, Richard Taylor

Shouldn't that be "The How to Not do anything book of beekeeping"?

Doing nothing might be the best approach, but doing nothing in the hope it's the best approach would be foolish.

 

[Liz bee]

No one has mentioned insurance. You should have public indemnity especially as they are on allotments.

 

[MartinL]

No one has mentioned insurance. You should have public indemnity especially as they are on allotments.

Why???
We've already established they're not his bees!

 

[Liz bee]

My understanding is that the OP is taking over responsibility for 6 hives which have been abandoned by their owner, who is untraceable.

They are sited on an allotment i.e. a public place.

That's why.

 

[MattC]

Hi Matt

By now you will have established the truth of the old saying "Ask two beekeepers a question, and you'll get three different answers."

As a fairly recent beginner myself, I suggest not getting too carried away with some of the more involved advice on here. I certainly wouldn't ever consider opening the hive without a more experienced beekeeper present.

Probably best to get on-the-ground advice on feeding/varroa treatment from someone who can see exactly what the situation is. Otherwise, leave well alone until next Spring, and sort out equipment/training/mentor in the meantime- hopefully there will be some surviving colonies to build from (although maybe fewer than if you'd sorted out varroa treatment and fed this year).

Having said this, gently propping up the wonky hive in the evening might be a good idea. Maybe poking trays of varroagard into the entrances would be ok, too. Even so, I'd be inclined to get local, face-to-face advice/support first.

Good luck- and what a great opportunity!

 

[whoosling]

Def go for beekeeping someone left a hive in my garden which i've filled with bees this summer, this forum is wonderful and once you have bees beekeepers are usually only to happy to help you and give advice ( be it loads of differnet advice!!!). Find you local association but also listen to the people on here. Lots of luck let us know how you get on

 

[Chris B]

leave well alone until next Spring.......
hopefully there will be some surviving colonies

No.
The bees alone are worth somewhere in the region of £1k.
It is very likely most have not got stores to survive the winter - has anyone noticed it's been a poor year for bees?
A simple heft will reveal all.

 

[ashleybee]

Today I went and had a look at Matts hives with him which were clearly abandoned and in a bit of a sorry state to put it politely.
There are 5 hives 4 with bees in.
All the hives except one are double brood nationals the other being brood and a half, well at a first glance thats what they looked like but once we got close there were Qx between all the boxes.
The first thing we did was look at the empty hive to give us a bit of an idea what to expect in the inhabited hives, I was very supprised to see very little wax moth and all the frames were in fairly good order not someting I'd even condone using but not at all rotten.
We have split all the boxes and removed the Qx and put a single dose of Apiguard on and put back the top box as the bee space was bigger between the boxes as there were no crown boards! on any of the hives.
2 hives were very strong and 2 were approx size of a decent size nuc.
The 2 strong colonys have a full brood box of stores on top and some in the bottom box. We didn't pull any frames of bees but looking between the frames we could see brood in 3 of the hives 4th hive not seen but may be there.
All the hives had 11 frames with no dummy board in the bottom box and only about 7 to 8 frames in the top box and all at one end so a lot of wild comb.
Matt is going to get some entrance feeders and feed them untill the stop taking it and we'll wait and see whats there in the spring in the mean time Matt is going to clean up the spare equipment ready for changing all the frames come spring.

 

[REDWOOD]

The bees have servived 2 years without feeding and varroa treatment, get a bee inspector to check them out for you, he/she will tell you the state of the hives and the correct action to take. join a local assocciation buy some basic equipment and protection. make sure this is what you want to do before jumping in with two feet and good luck

 

[Outlander]

Well done Ashley and good luck with them bees Matt.

 

[ashleybee]

Well done Ashley and good luck with them bees Matt.

Thanks. Matt is vertually on my door step and I have 4 apiaries dotted around Buckingham so I called into today Whilst poping round topping up my feeders.
I was supprised, they all looked quite healthy from what I could see. I have given Matt a list of things he needs to get and rough idea of what to expect and also offered for him to come around with me and look at some bees I will also go back and oxalic them when the time comes. He's got a great opertunity there and he knows it and I'm sure he's going to make the most of it.

 

[Chris Luck]

I was supprised, they all looked quite healthy from what I could see.

Strange thoughts, why surprised?

Chris

 

[ashleybee]

Strange thoughts, why surprised?

Chris

Just expected to see some signs of varroa and wax moth but apart from some wax moth in the empty one all seemed ok

 

[Chris Luck]

Just expected to see some signs of varroa and wax moth

I don't really see why although it is a popular rumour, certainly not the case in my experience.

Chris

 

[ashleybee]

I don't really see why although it is a popular rumour, certainly not the case in my experience.

Chris

Well to be fair I started in a very similar way with a couple of colonys that were in a sorry state left on a local farm but looking at Matts hives and my own original 2 are the extent of my abandond/neglected hive experiances.

 

[itma]

Today I went and had a look at Matts hives with him which were clearly abandoned and in a bit of a sorry state to put it politely.
There are 5 hives 4 with bees in.
All the hives except one are double brood nationals the other being brood and a half, well at a first glance thats what they looked like but once we got close there were Qx between all the boxes.
The first thing we did was look at the empty hive to give us a bit of an idea what to expect in the inhabited hives, I was very supprised to see very little wax moth and all the frames were in fairly good order not someting I'd even condone using but not at all rotten.
We have split all the boxes and removed the Qx and put a single dose of Apiguard on and put back the top box as the bee space was bigger between the boxes as there were no crown boards! on any of the hives.
2 hives were very strong and 2 were approx size of a decent size nuc.
The 2 strong colonys have a full brood box of stores on top and some in the bottom box. We didn't pull any frames of bees but looking between the frames we could see brood in 3 of the hives 4th hive not seen but may be there.
All the hives had 11 frames with no dummy board in the bottom box and only about 7 to 8 frames in the top box and all at one end so a lot of wild comb.
Matt is going to get some entrance feeders and feed them untill the stop taking it and we'll wait and see whats there in the spring in the mean time Matt is going to clean up the spare equipment ready for changing all the frames come spring.

Well done Ashley!

Thinking of sale time, Matt's shopping list would seem to need to include
- national brood frames, at least 1x 50
- supers! (I count 1 for 5 hives/4 colonies now) probably wants to get at least 8 more ... thats 3 each if 3 colonies come through
- shallow frames to suit - 2x 50 seconds? (Or 3x? )
- crownboards - ideally see-through, how about buying one & making some? Alternatively, B&Q will (for free) cut up a sheet of exterior ply into 461mm squares and then even I can fix a 10mm batten around under the edge -- plus B&Q have a 20% off everything offer this weekend (online registration needed).

And then there's the suit, smoker, hive tool ...

Foundation is going to be needed, but that rarely shows up in the sales - and some associations offer good prices, so no rush there I'd say.

Floors weren't mentioned - are they OMF?

The weak hive - Pain's Sale poly nuc for the winter? Useful to have one for next year anyway ...


Matt, welcome to the world of beekeeper's shopping!

 

[ashleybee]

Well done Ashley!

Thinking of sale time, Matt's shopping list would seem to need to include
- national brood frames, at least 1x 50
- supers! (I count 1 for 5 hives/4 colonies now) probably wants to get at least 8 more ... thats 3 each if 3 colonies come through
- shallow frames to suit - 2x 50 seconds? (Or 3x? )
- crownboards - ideally see-through, how about buying one & making some? Alternatively, B&Q will (for free) cut up a sheet of exterior ply into 461mm squares and then even I can fix a 10mm batten around under the edge -- plus B&Q have a 20% off everything offer this weekend (online registration needed).

And then there's the suit, smoker, hive tool ...

Foundation is going to be needed, but that rarely shows up in the sales - and some associations offer good prices, so no rush there I'd say.

Floors weren't mentioned - are they OMF?

The weak hive - Pain's Sale poly nuc for the winter? Useful to have one for next year anyway ...


Matt, welcome to the world of beekeeper's shopping!

Hooray some positive feed back!
Your list is an absolute spitting image of the list we made today.
I build all of my own equipment so supers are no problem.
He's about to build a new shed in the garden so he's going to add a sheet of exterior ply to the list for his crown boards.
Floors are all solid and starting to rot so we discussed a couple of options eg. sales or making some.
Mouse guards and feeders he's going to buy now.
The weak one! problem No.1 poor frame spacing has lead to an extra leaf of comb on 2 of the frames with all thier brood. problem No.2 nearly all thier stores are in the wild comb above the brood nest. The wild comb is nearly 50% of the top box. Approx 30lbs + in the top box. This hive was the best looking one no damp spots well sealed fairly decent floor and roof so my inclination was to leave as is but any ideas welcomed.

Getting a bit ahead of ourselves here but I offered the use of my honey house next year to help keep cost sensible as he has a young family and starting a new business.
going back to the weak one I did think about trying to dummy off the 2 boxes to about maybe 7 frames worth of each box with one long dummy board. what are your thoughts?

 

[itma]

From the sound of the weak hive, I think its probably better left as-is.

At the start of August, cutting them about would be the way to go (and maybe see if anything other than Varroa is ailing them).
But at the end of September... I suppose that they are better off just taking their chance, where and as they are.

Given that they aren't thriving, I would be inclined to try a couple of pyretherin strips, as well as the Apiguard. Cost is surely the only downside to trying.

If you are getting involved, maybe you could take a sample of bees and check them for Nosema?

The B&Q offer is this weekend only, and in-store only.

Maisies have some assembled OMFs in their sale list at £15.50 (inc vat), which ought to tempt Matt. IMHO putting the existing stacks onto OMFs (and thereby reducing dampness) would be a major contribution to getting this lot through the winter.
As will crownboards!
If damp is a problem generally, draping the hives in Tyvek (vapour permeable) roofing membrane after closing for winter, should help with the damp and against any 'peckers.

It sounds as though Matt has a willing mentor already!

 

[ashleybee]

Tyvek never even crossed my mind and omf's I'm sure will help although they didn't seem damp inside at all but with winter looming any thing we can do to help give them a chance.
MENTOR if only I had the time with 120 + colony's of my own and a broiler farm with very nearly 1,000,000 chickens I'm flat out all the time but as he's in between some of my own apiaries I think I should be able to fit in plenty of visits.
I'm pleased he's decided to take them on as they were vertually invisable and where they were he could have easily just left them to dwindle away to nothing. He did say the the last owner had other hives on local farms so there may be more but as the guy just vanished theres not much hope of finding them

 

[richardbees]

Very neighbourly of you, Ashley and lifts the spirits!

I too am surprised that all six colonies have survived, can't help thinking they have been tended unobserved