I was wondering - those with two/three hives, do you split or just demaree?

[RogerIvy]

We were checking our split to replace our colony that became queenless during the winter.
Looking good. 11 out of 12 colonies made it through so quite satisfied.

And that got me wondering ….

Those with only two/three colonies (in their small garden?), how do you manage swarming?
Do you split and give the split away? (Or sell it?)
Or do you demaree? I guess at some stage you’d need to replace your queen anyway.

 

[Sutty]

So far I haven't tried a demaree. Have split (or collected the swarm!), or nuced the queen, and tried to unite after.
Downside of spring unites is dealing with the 3x brood box hives!
Trying a reverse a/s under a split board currently!

 

[Antipodes]

We were checking our split to replace our colony that became queenless during the winter.
Looking good. 11 out of 12 colonies made it through so quite satisfied.

And that got me wondering ….

Those with only two/three colonies (in their small garden?), how do you manage swarming?
Do you split and give the split away? (Or sell it?)
Or do you demaree? I guess at some stage you’d need to replace your queen anyway.

A Demaree is excellent if you can be bothered. If you get them to make a new queen in the top, and once she is established with her own workers, you can remove the older queen and put the lot together. A short while after combining, condense the brood into a single box over which you place a queen excluder. Big, booming colony with an excellent young queen raised by the bees in those boxes themselves, ready, willing and able to gather you lots of honey in summer.

 

[rdartington]

A Demaree is excellent if you can be bothered. If you get them to make a new queen in the top, and once she is established with her own workers, you can remove the older queen and put the lot together. A short while after combining, condense the brood into a single box over which you place a queen excluder. Big, booming colony with an excellent young queen raised by the bees in those boxes themselves, ready, willing and able to gather you lots of honey in summer.

Wally Shaw’s ‘An apiary guide to swarm control’, 2022, 40 pages makes clear just how much bother Demaree is when using normal vertical hives - he shows the resulting stack needs two brood boxes and 4 supers, which gets very tall.
Is it worth mentioning how much easy it is using a double length hive such as the Dartington? You just winter on 9 frames, then add 3 foundations at the front and 3 drawn honey frames at back. Then, when brood is on all 9 winter frames with 2 half size ‘honeyboxes above, just split by putting in a division board midway, making sure there are eggs in both halves. No need to find queen - part with Q is too small to swarm, part without raises new Q. When new Q is well in lay, just remove div board to unite - no need to remove old Q, this is enforced supercedure, mother and daughter do not fight. Colony with new Q does not swarm later that year. Add more honeyboxes and get out deck chair to enjoy the sunshine. .

 

[Antipodes]

Wally Shaw’s ‘An apiary guide to swarm control’, 2022, 40 pages makes clear just how much bother Demaree is when using normal vertical hives - he shows the resulting stack needs two brood boxes and 4 supers, which gets very tall.
Is it worth mentioning how much easy it is using a double length hive such as the Dartington? You just winter on 9 frames, then add 3 foundations at the front and 3 drawn honey frames at back. Then, when brood is on all 9 winter frames with 2 half size ‘honeyboxes above, just split by putting in a division board midway, making sure there are eggs in both halves. No need to find queen - part with Q is too small to swarm, part without raises new Q. When new Q is well in lay, just remove div board to unite - no need to remove old Q, this is enforced supercedure, mother and daughter do not fight. Colony with new Q does not swarm later that year. Add more honeyboxes and get out deck chair to enjoy the sunshine. .

If I do a Demaree, I like to/want to get a new queen in the top, made under supercedure impulse, which I let them keep once she's going well.
Any method like that the keeps the queen laying and the colony producing seems the best way. I heard it said recently, that a queen loses half of her pheromones every year. That means, by year three, she has only 25% of the pheromones she had in year one. I've found nothing in any research to back that up, but am interested please if anyone has any information on that, one way or the other .

 

[Nannysbees]

Really difficult, our ideal is four, initially I wanted to keep to three!!!! We have five and a split this year. I definitely intend to combine before the winter. Also I think we mistook succeeding for a swarm, school boy error.

 

[The Poot]

We were checking our split to replace our colony that became queenless during the winter.
Looking good. 11 out of 12 colonies made it through so quite satisfied.

And that got me wondering ….

Those with only two/three colonies (in their small garden?), how do you manage swarming?
Do you split and give the split away? (Or sell it?)
Or do you demaree? I guess at some stage you’d need to replace your queen anyway.

This is the most difficult part of beekeeping for me. Overwintered four and a nuc, with no losses.
Decided four would be the most I want in the garden, so sold the nuc.
Now back to five after a splitting a huge colony with another colony split anticipated this week.
Colonies each have three supers on double brood and thus (for me) uniting now is not an option - too tall and me too weak!
I feel under pressure to reduce the number of bees in the garden and avoid swarming - it’s just not enjoyable at present.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wally Shaw’s ‘An apiary guide to swarm control’, 2022, 40 pages makes clear just how much bother Demaree is when using normal vertical hives - he shows the resulting stack needs two brood boxes and 4 supers

which is incorrect to start with, it certainly doesn't 'need' four supers for the manipulation - only for the honey crop afterwards.
Wally has never 'rated' Demaree so tends to skirt over a lot of the facts. He tends to do that with things he doesn't agree with unfortunately.
It certainly is no more 'bother' than any other manipulation, most of which need, not only two brood boxes but two stands, floors, crownboards and roofs - as well as goodness knows how many supers.

 

[Do224]

A short while after combining, condense the brood into a single box over which you place a queen excluder. Big, booming colony with an excellent young queen

Presumably she’s unlikely to try and swarm as she’s so young (despite being jammed into one bb)?

 

[Antipodes]

Presumably she’s unlikely to try and swarm as she’s so young (despite being jammed into one bb)?

Yes. So far I haven't had it happen.
They say that the colony raising her themselves might help in that regard.

 

[enrico]

I now only do swarm control with the nuc method ( old queen in a nuc) that gives me an old queen in nuc and new queen in old brood box. By the time the nuc is full the new queen is laying and I make a decision on which I want to keep. I combine both parts later in the year using the queen I want to keep. It has taken so much of the heavy lifting away that I find a demaree needs, and I always have a spare queen to hand just in case! ( The old one in the nuc)

 

[polymath]

If I do a Demaree, I like to/want to get a new queen in the top, made under supercedure impulse, which I let them keep once she's going well.
Any method like that the keeps the queen laying and the colony producing seems the best way. I heard it said recently, that a queen loses half of her pheromones every year. That means, by year three, she has only 25% of the pheromones she had in year one. I've found nothing in any research to back that up, but am interested please if anyone has any information on that, one way or the other .

Here is my system in pictures. Last went through hives about two to three weeks ago, will not bother for at least another week or so and will then see how many top boxes are mated. I have another 15 queens out in mating nucs, so where they have not mated will merge in a new queen, aim to end up on double queen for main honey flow so that means two laying queens in place by late May so that i have foragers for end of June early July when main flow typically comes.

 

[polymath]

Note, Demaree does not work where the colony has started to swarm, only pre swarm.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Note, Demaree does not work where the colony has started to swarm, only pre swarm.

exactly - it's a proactive rather than a reactive manipulation, swarm avoidance rather than control.

 

[Antipodes]

Here is my system in pictures

Very good description, diagrams and photos.

 

[BaconWizard]

Here is my system in pictures. Last went through hives about two to three weeks ago, will not bother for at least another week or so and will then see how many top boxes are mated. I have another 15 queens out in mating nucs, so where they have not mated will merge in a new queen, aim to end up on double queen for main honey flow so that means two laying queens in place by late May so that i have foragers for end of June early July when main flow typically comes.

I run the horizontal Two-Queen setup pictured, except that each brood box is a nuc (or rather, I use a dummy-board to restrict it to a nuc size until the autumn)
I have only been doing it since last year but so far neither has tried to swarm yet.

 

[philipm]

I split when needed and reunite in the autumn to keep the hive numbers down over winter.

 

[Ely]

Did anyone manage to Demeree this Spring? I didn't have the opportunity. It went from too cold for the brood not to chill in a demeree to then hot and swarmy and needing artificial swarms. I guess I could have caught them for a demeree when the weather improved but it was difficult to tell if the weather would be consistently warm enough

 

[Curly green finger's]

Did anyone manage to Demeree this Spring? I didn't have the opportunity. It went from too cold for the brood not to chill in a demeree to then hot and swarmy and needing artificial swarms. I guess I could have caught them for a demeree when the weather improved but it was difficult to tell if the weather would be consistently warm enough

Demarreeing the same as other years so far, if anything one apiary a little earlier, but this is a new site.

 

[drex]

I Demareed one strong hive. I now have 3 queen cells in nucs.