I think they are doomed

[Wingy]

3 weeks ago a small cast swarm moved into an old Langstroth hive on my allotment. I'd positioned it there as I'm sorting out the plot and intend having a couple of hives from next year.
This hive was a brood box and some frames with old, tatty drawn comb, floor & roof.
Swarm consisted of about 1000 bees max. A few days later I put a rapid feeder over crown board with 1:1 sugar solution. Found the Q, dummied the box down and reduced the entrance.
Today checked in and found about 200-300 bees some capped stores, plenty stores filling up nectar and pollen. Very little work done on cleaning up the old drawn comb, couldn't find the Q no eggs or brood at any stage.
I have no other colonies yet and can't see how these few can survive? Any ideas as it seems ashame watching them working away only to die off
Wingy

 

[wightbees]

Could of lost the Queen on mating flight if it was a Virgin, with out test frame your stuffed really. Contact your bka for help possible?

 

[viridens]

If they are doomed, they seem happy and busy anyhow!
By my reckoning it is still possible that a virgin queen heading a swarm 3 weeks ago may now be mated and just about to lay, and pollen coming in is a good sign. Maybe you missed the Q? Leave it another week or so before doing anything drastic.

 

[Wingy]

My best guess is that it was a virgin Q with a small cast swarm. Yesterday there were so few bees I don't think I would not have seen the Q if she was there but yes it's possible. By my reckoning the bees when they first arrived would have been about 2 weeks old ish, been there 3 weeks = 5 weeks old. If Q is there & starts to lay now it will be another 3 weeks before they start to hatch = 8 week old bees, 2 weeks before new bees start to forage = 10 week old bees?
Even if I put a virgin Q in there I think it's too late as she would need to mate and would not have the numbers of workers to support her.
I can't see any clean or polished comb that would be ready if I obtained a mated Q and if she was accepted.

 

[enrico]

You would be surprised how few bees are needed with a laying queen to produce a hive. They just need the right care and plenty of insulation. This year may be nothing but if they do get through the winter the spring build up may surprise you. Fingers crossed. Nothing to lose by keeping them.
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

Put them into a dummied down poly nuc; nice and cosy. They might surprise you

 

[MartinL]

Have you read this? https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40157



With luck they could surprise you!

 

[Wingy]

Thanks for the replies, I was under the impression that workers had a relatively short lifespan and needed constant replenishment?
I am sure the Q has gone but I have removed all unoccupied frames just leaving 3 they are working on. I've dummied the sides down with polystyrene as I don't have a nuc at present.
I could introduce a new Q possibly next week if that would help.

 

[enrico]

Oh, if the queen has gone then you ARE knackered.

 

[mintmoth]

Thanks for the replies, I was under the impression that workers had a relatively short lifespan and needed constant replenishment?
I am sure the Q has gone but I have removed all unoccupied frames just leaving 3 they are working on. I've dummied the sides down with polystyrene as I don't have a nuc at present.
I could introduce a new Q possibly next week if that would help.

Don't give up hope yet. I have a colony that made itself a new queen (I hoped) from a QC that emerged 9th June. Yesterday there were barely 2 frames of bees in there, but, finally, some eggs and young larvae. As I was having a mock SHB inspection by RBI's I asked them to find the Q for me. Verdict - couldn't see the Q but laying pattern and pollen/nectar pattern indicated there was a Q present, not laying workers. So you may yet have a Q and she is just hiding very well, and yet to start laying.

 

[Millet]

Oh, if the queen has gone then you ARE knackered.

Come on Enrico Give a positive bit of advise, i know what i would do but i do not have your experiences .to take the flak afterwards.. lol

 

[Wingy]

The only possibility I can see for their recovery is if the Q is there somewhere although I doubt. I think virgin Q didn't return after a mating flight. I have no test frames in order for a QC to be made. I don't have any other colonies to transfer brood etc so other than keeping them insulated & warm and feeding they are on their own. Spoke to my mentor about purchasing a Q and introducing it but the verdict was that it would be a waste of money and a Q
Wingy

 

[Millet]

The only possibility I can see for their recovery is if the Q is there somewhere although I doubt. I think virgin Q didn't return after a mating flight. I have no test frames in order for a QC to be made. I don't have any other colonies to transfer brood etc so other than keeping them insulated & warm and feeding they are on their own. Spoke to my mentor about purchasing a Q and introducing it but the verdict was that it would be a waste of money and a Q
Wingy

If you have a mentor surely he/she can supply you with a spare frame of brood and eggs .

 

[Wingy]

If you have a mentor surely he/she can supply you with a spare frame of brood and eggs .

Not at the moment, my mentor is in his first year going commercial and is struggling himself juggling frames, brood & queens to make up nuc's. He needs all he can get as it's a make or break year for him.

 

[Wingy]

Ok after the advise here, from my local branch of bbka they were destine to be doomed. Chatting with my mentor, it was decided that a frame of brood would be no good as there were too few bees left to keep it warm and forage etc. He came up with a plan and provided me with a nice 2017 buckfast Q which I introduced successfully. Once she was in and laying he gave me a box of young bees taken from various hives. I introduced these over the last couple of days as combining two small colonies. Again success. Going to see how things go over the next couple of weeks but preparing to transfer to an insulated nuc if needed.
Can't say I haven't tried
Wingy

 

[viridens]

Nice to hear about a happy ending, although the 'big boys' probably think you are crazy for taking all the trouble. Well done!

 

[Teemore]

You can boost this stock of bees with young bees from another colony simply by dumping them right in front of the hive. I was offered this tip last week by a long term beekeeper and tried it out to boost an apidea or three that were a bit low on emerged bees. It works nicely. The young bees are more readily accepted by another colony and their tendancy is to go straight into the nearest hive when dumped on the ground - in general, they have yet to orientate on "home".

 

[enrico]

Well done, sorry millet thought my advice was less than helpful, but it was honest. You needed a queen or some method of raising one and you have done just that. A lot f beekeeping is thinking outside the box. Well done again for giving them a chance. Fingers crossed.
E

 

[Millet]

Ok after the advise here, from my local branch of bbka they were destine to be doomed. Chatting with my mentor, it was decided that a frame of brood would be no good as there were too few bees left to keep it warm and forage etc. He came up with a plan and provided me with a nice 2017 buckfast Q which I introduced successfully. Once she was in and laying he gave me a box of young bees taken from various hives. I introduced these over the last couple of days as combining two small colonies. Again success. Going to see how things go over the next couple of weeks but preparing to transfer to an insulated nuc if needed.
Can't say I haven't tried
Wingy

Well done you and the best of luck with them.

 

[Poly Hive]

A lot can be learnt from such an experience.

Good luck with them and hopefully they will reward you with full supers next year.

PH