I really don't understand bees sometimes :(

[Insy]

Well what the title says .

I've had a great start to the season with my hive last week i had 9 deep + 7 shallow national frames of brood in all stages + a full super of stores.
They had just starting laying eggs in the play cups so i decided to do a split, removed 3 brood + 2 stores (1 brood frame had 2 queen cells with eggs in) and played into a national brood with a few dummies and couple new frames and shook 5 super frames of nurse bees in also.

So 5 days later (today) i went up to 1 check split hadn't run out of stores and transfer to my new poly swienty hive and just to double check i hadn't missed no queen cells in main hive and check stores again.

Reason for checking after only 5 days is because forecast for rest of week looks pretty shocking.

Anyone.....

Split had a bit of stores left in 1 frame, 1 frame emerged bees and 2 frames still capped brood and queen cells still intact (got a mated queen on order so will pull them all down when she arrives). Decided to place 500g neopoll onto top bars of frames since stores a bit low.

Main hive omg where do i start???

Bees seem to be a bit fiesty which is unusual, stores are very very low i recon theres not even half the super of stores left :O, so will be going up in week to pop lid off and place 4pints of sugar syrup on.
I couldn't find the queen anywhere and there was very little fresh eggs, was some but compared to the amount of un laid space in brood box wasn't much unless they all just emerged and shes trying to catch up. Plenty of pollen coming in from flyers but heres the big boo boo.

very little fresh eggs, slightly fiesty bees, couldn't find the queen and there is 2 VERY big queen cells hanging down off the top bar of super like a supercedure is taking place.

The 2 queen cells wasn't there last wednesday, both were charged and i would say not far off 1.5" in length really big queen cells.

Now i was thinking i could of killed/harmed HM in last inspection, but if that was the case there wouldn't be fresh eggs and there would be tons of emergency cells not just 2 real big ones.

So next thought was supercedure

I've left the 2 queen cells there for now (both uncapped at this stage) what do i do now?

I destroyed them last year and ended up queenless because didn't realise it was a supercedure.

Any advice would be smashing, my hive was doing so well this season and now its decide to kick me i the goonies and laugh again .

Thanks

 

[Elaine]

I'd leave them to it -

 

[Stiffy]

Well what the title says .

I've had a great start to the season with my hive last week i had 9 deep + 7 shallow national frames of brood in all stages + a full super of stores.
They had just starting laying eggs in the play cups so i decided to do a split, removed 3 brood + 2 stores (1 brood frame had 2 queen cells with eggs in) and played into a national brood with a few dummies and couple new frames and shook 5 super frames of nurse bees in also.

So 5 days later (today) i went up to 1 check split hadn't run out of stores and transfer to my new poly swienty hive and just to double check i hadn't missed no queen cells in main hive and check stores again.

Reason for checking after only 5 days is because forecast for rest of week looks pretty shocking.

Anyone.....

Split had a bit of stores left in 1 frame, 1 frame emerged bees and 2 frames still capped brood and queen cells still intact (got a mated queen on order so will pull them all down when she arrives). Decided to place 500g neopoll onto top bars of frames since stores a bit low.

Main hive omg where do i start???

Bees seem to be a bit fiesty which is unusual, stores are very very low i recon theres not even half the super of stores left :O, so will be going up in week to pop lid off and place 4pints of sugar syrup on.
I couldn't find the queen anywhere and there was very little fresh eggs, was some but compared to the amount of un laid space in brood box wasn't much unless they all just emerged and shes trying to catch up. Plenty of pollen coming in from flyers but heres the big boo boo.

very little fresh eggs, slightly fiesty bees, couldn't find the queen and there is 2 VERY big queen cells hanging down off the top bar of super like a supercedure is taking place.

The 2 queen cells wasn't there last wednesday, both were charged and i would say not far off 1.5" in length really big queen cells.

Now i was thinking i could of killed/harmed HM in last inspection, but if that was the case there wouldn't be fresh eggs and there would be tons of emergency cells not just 2 real big ones.

So next thought was supercedure

I've left the 2 queen cells there for now (both uncapped at this stage) what do i do now?

I destroyed them last year and ended up queenless because didn't realise it was a supercedure.

Any advice would be smashing, my hive was doing so well this season and now its decide to kick me i the goonies and laugh again .

Thanks

very little fresh eggs, slightly fiesty bees, couldn't find the queen and there is 2 VERY big queen cells hanging down off the top bar of super like a supercedure is taking place.[/QUOTE]

Easily done but I think you missed the Q cells last Wednesday and she has swarmed.
I would check again to make sure you haven't missed the Q but think you should just leave them with their two Q cells to get on with it.
I don't trust supercedure at this time of year as too many Q's I have had have bxxxerd off with a load of workers in the past when I thought they were just being replaced.
S

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Looking back over last year and the number of queens that didn't get mated sufficiently I feel that a higher proportion than normal of queens will get superceded this spring as against normal swarming, I guess people will just have to look at the number, look and position of queen cells on the combs and try management based on what they find, a difficult one if you only have one or two stocks.

 

[fiftyjon]

It could be possible that the colony still had swarming fever and although you weakened the colony by making the split, they carried on making swarming preparations and they have swarmed.

or..

They might not have swarmed and they are fiesty because they cannot swarm due to the weather. Re-check to confirm whether or not you have a queen, she is likely to be in the area where you saw the eggs that had been laid and if you find her perform an artificial swarm.

Otherwise leave the colony to it as others have suggested.

 

[Insy]

Well i should had a mated queen being delivered for wednesday for this split, if it arrives when i go to introduce it to the split ill pull apart my main hive again.

There was a few brood frames with no larvae/eggs/brood at all so if i look again in 2 days and find more eggs then she must be in there and ill rip all the QC out for time being.

Like i was saying queen performance has been great, every inspection I've had near 9 deep and 7-8 shallow national frames of brood in all stages mostly worker with some strips of drones.

Fingers crossed for wednesday i suppose.

 

[fiftyjon]

Well i should had a mated queen being delivered for wednesday for this split, if it arrives when i go to introduce it to the split ill pull apart my main hive again.

There was a few brood frames with no larvae/eggs/brood at all so if i look again in 2 days and find more eggs then she must be in there and ill rip all the QC out for time being.

Like i was saying queen performance has been great, every inspection I've had near 9 deep and 7-8 shallow national frames of brood in all stages mostly worker with some strips of drones.

Fingers crossed for wednesday i suppose.

I wouldn't leave it that long to confirm whether you have a queen or not in the main hive, if it was me I'll be looking in at the earliest time possible.

 

[Insy]

Hmmm problem is weather, weather tommorow looks pretty poor here but its its okay around lunch/early afternoon i might be able to get down and have another attempt to find her.

 

[user 6228]

I wouldn't leave it that long to confirm whether you have a queen or not in the main hive, if it was me I'll be looking in at the earliest time possible.

If, the options are only supercedure or they have already swarmed ,and if the answer to both is do nothing, why the the urgency to inspect??

 

[MandF]

Dont they swarm when the QC is capped, and not before?

The bees will stop feeding the queen prior to swarming, and this might explain the reduced egg laying. This also means she will slim down and be less easy to spot.

So, from what I see they are about to swarm as soon as theQCs are capped.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Weather protection?

Maybe I am demonstrating my total lack of experience or its been discussed in the past but does anyone use a gazebo to provide shelter in inclement weather when opening a hive?

 

[madasafish]

I don't have a portable gazebo. One would be nice in this weather...Unfortunately if it was light enough to move, it would be blown away by the next gust of wind.

Edit:

Of course if I have a big tracked gazebo carrier...

 

[Insy]

MandF i thought that also, also why would they be bringing in little tons of pollen if swarmed?

I know exactly what frame the 2 cells are on, if need be ill go down tommorow literally pop off the 2 supers take frame out pull down cells and close up hopefully 5 minute job.

If then it turns out i am queenless and swarmed prior to this ill get a mated queen in and stick her in, or ill just shook swarm them from national into langstroth and go back to 1 hive as i want to get off nationals anyway they drive me crazy.

 

[Chris B]

Your bees haven't swarmed yet but they'll likely go on a warmer day (whatever they are I can hardly remember). The problem is your swarm control measure was totally insufficient i.e. you've left the queen with most of the bees and most of the brood. You might just get lucky and they'll give up due to to lots of cold days, but I wouldn't rely on it.

 

[Insy]

Thought this was the case I assumed making the split last week would of helped a little but it obviously hasn't, that's my mistake okay so let me ask this. The split i made last wednesday atm isn't very active as its mostly nurse bees and there sitting on capped brood to keep it warm.

Is it possible to rectify this situation tommorow if it doesn't swarm before i get there by doing the following.

Open main hive and pull down 2 queen cells.
Put Main Hive where split hive is and the split hive where Main hive is.
Shook swarm more bees from main hive into split to and possibly take a couple more frames of brood for the split.
Flyers from main hive will now go to split and will leave the main hive with nurse bees/queen/brood about to emerge?

So in theory a attempt of AS but doing it cack handed

Or will the flyers come back and fight the split hive? If that's the case couldn't i just stuff entrance with bit of grass to let them get used to scent and they should be okay?

Man i made a mess of things this time haha, if they haven't farmed yet i would rather top them cause the farmer wont be happy .
Never had a swarm from my hive yet up there so this could be first.

Thanks

 

[MandF]

Foragers will still be doing what comes natural, ie bringing in nectar and pollen, so the old hive is well provisioned after they go off.

Your split might not have been soon enough or disruptive enough (to the swarm instinct) to stop it.

One thing they do need to swarm is the queen, so you could try what you said, or more simply moving the queen to the split.

You can also put a QE under the brood box to physically stop her going, though this isnt necessarily foolproof (if she was a small queen and also slims down she might get through it), and also there is a risk of her being damaged if they try and force her through it. This can buy you some time.

I would also put a bait hive/nuc out, as there is a chance if they did swarm they might go into your other hive!

 

[Chris B]

Yes swapping their positions should do the trick by depleting the main hive of flyers. I don't think I'd bother swapping any more frames at all.
The only downside is you'll need to introduce your bought queen to what will be a bigger colony - slightly higher chance of rejection that's all.

 

[beeno]

Your bees haven't swarmed yet but they'll likely go on a warmer day (whatever they are I can hardly remember). The problem is your swarm control measure was totally insufficient i.e. you've left the queen with most of the bees and most of the brood. You might just get lucky and they'll give up due to to lots of cold days, but I wouldn't rely on it.

Hi Chris B,
That analysis makes sense to me. Is there anything that can be done in a situation like this? Cage the Q, assuming she can be found?

 

[Insy]

Looks like i got the plan Lets hope they don't cap cell and go today/tommorow before i get there. Hopefully this crap weather might actually come in handy.

Shame really that hive was doing so well my fault really should of just split a bit bigger, this what you get for being stingy .

 

[Insy]

Well shes a shes a very big queen that's why i manage to see her every inspection, you cannot miss her. Distinctive carny leather brown colour all over and as fat and plump as a juicy plum.
But there is eggs in there so she must be somewhere, cause I'm sure one of the farm workers would of seen something up if they was swarming when they was around its not exactly hard to miss a big black humming cloud.