HOW TO: Make soft set honey from OSR

[VEG]

pestle and motar can be used but easier just to get some that is set the way you like and use that.

 

[peteinwilts]

Hi Guys

I still have not yet bought a stirrer, but have tried a test

I warmed a bucket of honey at 38 degrees, but even after a week, would not reduce down to anything looser than double cream.

In my honey warmer, I put the temperature up to 48, and stirred every 10 minutes until it was liquid. It took about 40 minutes. I did not take the temperature of the honey, but in hindsight, I should have. (during this time, I can't believe a 30lb honey bucket would not have warmed to this temperature... probably midway).

I decanted 9lb into a new bucket, and added my 1lb of seed (the seed was at room temperature). I then used a hand food mixer to blend it so the seed was well mixed.

Once in this state, I put the bucket onto the cold floor of the unheated porch and left it there.

The mixture thickened quickly, and I 'tested' the honey every few days. I did not stir it again as it would have required something stronger than a food blender.

It has been in the porch for 13 days, and the density appears to be stable as it has not got thicker for a good few days. The mixture is soft but firm. soft margarine density.

My questions are:-

Have I wrecked it by heating it too high? it seems to taste ok.

Is it likely to go wrong because I did not cool the mixture to 35?

Is it likely to go wrong because I did not warm the seed up to 35?

after 13 days in a cold temperature, would I expect it to go harder, or do we think that is it?

With hindsight I should have put the remainder of the bucket without the seed in the same environment. (It is now in a fermenter making mead!)

I hope to use the new mixture as a seed for other buckets.
If this method is 'approved', at the moment I could stick with it without buying stirrers\paddles\propellers as I currently only have the capabilities of melting one bucket at a time regardless...

If the new seed is unlikely to be wrecked, I will use it for a new test. I will perform the same again, but jar it straight after blending, as the smaller volumes will accelerate the cooling and hopefully demonstrate the final result quicker.

Cheers
Pete

 

[itma]

The first thing I'd be worried about would be the "hand food mixer".
Generally these are designed to incorporate lots and lots of air - for example when whipping cream or egg whites.
For honey stirring, the idea is to incorporate no air whatsoever.

You seem to be confusing "density" with viscosity (liquid stiffness).
Density relates to the weight that will go into a jar. If there's lots of air in it, you won't get a pound weight of honey into a 'pound' jar.

What are you using to measure the temperature, and where are you measuring it? (Did you measure in the honey bucket at any point?)

 

[peteinwilts]

you are right - density = viscosity.

I used the slowest setting. It is a small hand blender, so the paddles (whatever they are called!) where under the honey level. I was careful trying to introduce as small amount of air as possible.
I could pot a jar up and weigh it comparing it to some liquid honey.

I have a 'jam maker' that was on sale from Lidl a couple of years go, therefore the bucket is surrounded up to the 3/4 level with water.

The thermostat on the jam maker is useless, so I use one of my under water probes connected to a digital thermostat which are calibrated and is accurate to 1/10th of a degree, so am not concerned on that front.

 

[itma]

you are right - density ≠ viscosity.

I used the slowest setting. It is a small hand blender, so the paddles (whatever they are called!) where under the honey level. I was careful trying to introduce as small amount of air as possible.
...
I have a 'jam maker' that was on sale from Lidl a couple of years go, therefore the bucket is surrounded up to the 3/4 level with water.

The thermostat on the jam maker is useless, so I use one of my under water probes connected to a digital thermostat which are calibrated and is accurate to 1/10th of a degree, so am not concerned on that front.

I think even a slow speed on the stick blender is likely to induce some cavitation and frothing.
The normal method is just a very gentle churning (well below 100 rpm I believe).
I'm sure your first batch would be fine (regardless of any foaming) for use as seed on the rest of your stock, (having been tested on the tongue for smoothness rather than graininess) - but I'm not confident that the blender is the right way to go for the stirring.



I have an old (pre-digital control) Lidl 'jam-maker'. Mine is controlled by a PID microcontroller (from eBay) with its own solid state relay for switching and a fully immersed measurement probe, thus using the original thermostat (set high) purely as a safety cutout.
Low 30's should be fine for reducing viscosity before fine filtering, but low 40's is more commonly used for redissolving granulation, I believe.

 

[peteinwilts]

isn't the reason for heating for redisolving granulation regardless? (or have I missed the point??)

I think you are right about the blender, and I will stay away.

The video shows a propeller in use. (about £73) It also suggests the honey is creamed and not seeded.

Others on the forum suggest a corkscrew stirrer for use of mixing in the seed. (about £21)

Which IYHO is the better option and why?

I don't mind spending money, as long as it is on the right solution.

I find it most interesting T's sell the propeller, the corkscrew mixer and a 'creamer', whilst maisey and Pains sell none of them?!?!

 

[itma]

The video in post #2 in this thread shows the basic method - using the corkscrew, and a jar of 'seed' honey.

Just note the updates (refinements after shooting) mentioned in post #4.


AFAIK, the "creamer" is for diehard manual types, the corkscrew is the usual and the propellor is ... maybe for bee farmers making bigger batches in big stainless tanks?


If you want honey to quickly run through a particularly fine filter (maybe for showing?) you need to warm it slightly to reduce its viscosity (make it more runny). So you heat it to the mid 30's -- and the same for bottling soft set ('creamed') honey.

 

[VEG]

I use the corkscrew simply because it was the right price it works very well, I have made a few batches now and all have worked using this easy method of seeding.

 

[peteinwilts]

Thanks for your assistance guys. I have a corkscrew stirrer arriving in the next 15 minutes.

I took some honey from the same batch of my 'seed' test, heated it to the same consistency and popped it in the porch. After just two days the honey is a fair bit harder than my 'seeded' honey already, so am confident to move forward.

last night I ran a spoon over several buckets and can now taste the difference of the ones that will stay liquid for longer (which also do not require the elevated temperature!), and the bullet hard buckets which will be used for seeding or mead (depending on the taste!)

Thanks again!

 

[Dogwednesday]

Great post, essential reading for Module 2

 

[Finman]

I have used 35 years system, that 350 kg stainless steal barrel crystallize the end. During crystallzation I stirred honey manually.

Then I put an insulated box over barrel and and kept the honey one week in the heat of 35C. Yeah, during that time I was in Helsinki and time worked for me.

With my wife we put into jars 350 kg soft honey in 4 hours.

25 kg buckets are easy to work too. But it is better to do a jaring barrel from 60 litre plantic container. You soften with heat the buckets, and then fill the container. Let the airbubbes rise up , catch thr foam crom honey surface, and jar next day the honey.

200 litre barrel is really easy to work. But it depends, how big is your total yield.

 

[Finman]

Hi Guys

I still have not yet bought a stirrer, but have tried a test

I warmed a bucket of honey at 38 degrees, but even after a week, would not reduce down to anything looser than double cream.

In my honey warmer, I put the temperature up to 48, and stirred every 10 minutes until it was liquid. It took about 40 minutes. I did not take the temperature of the honey, but in hindsight, I should have. (during this time, I can't believe a 30lb honey bucket would not have warmed to this temperature... probably midway).

I decanted 9lb into a new bucket, and added my 1lb of seed (the seed was at room temperature). I then used a hand food mixer to blend it so the seed was well mixed.

Once in this state, I put the bucket onto the cold floor of the unheated porch and left it there.

The mixture thickened quickly, and I 'tested' the honey every few days. I did not stir it again as it would have required something stronger than a food blender.

It has been in the porch for 13 days, and the density appears to be stable as it has not got thicker for a good few days. The mixture is soft but firm. soft margarine density.

My questions are:-

Have I wrecked it by heating it too high? it seems to taste ok.

Is it likely to go wrong because I did not cool the mixture to 35?

Is it likely to go wrong because I did not warm the seed up to 35?

after 13 days in a cold temperature, would I expect it to go harder, or do we think that is it?

With hindsight I should have put the remainder of the bucket without the seed in the same environment. (It is now in a fermenter making mead!)

I hope to use the new mixture as a seed for other buckets.
If this method is 'approved', at the moment I could stick with it without buying stirrers\paddles\propellers as I currently only have the capabilities of melting one bucket at a time regardless...

If the new seed is unlikely to be wrecked, I will use it for a new test. I will perform the same again, but jar it straight after blending, as the smaller volumes will accelerate the cooling and hopefully demonstrate the final result quicker.

Cheers
Pete

When you have so much hives, you should have something smarter.

To do everything quickly is not a smart choice. You really can treat stuff 24 hours or 48 hours. Then you avoid too high temperatures.

I have a warmer closet, where I can heat 200 kg honey in frames before extracting. I could warm up crystallized honey in 25 kg buckets in the closet. I can put there 200 kg ready honey


.
.

 

[For want of a better word]

When you have so much hives, you should have something smarter.

To do everything quickly is not a smart choice. You really can treat stuff 24 hours or 48 hours. Then you avoid too high temperatures.

I have a warmer closet, where I can heat 200 kg honey in frames before extracting. I could warm up crystallized honey in 25 kg buckets in the closet. I can put there 200 kg ready honey


.
.

Excellent dual use for the Sauna....!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Excellent dual use for the Sauna....!

Yeghes da

Yes, I have 70 litre water pot in sauna, and I warm up the water with wood. It is a good water bath for honey.

 

[Ely]

How do you warm your honey if you have quite a lot of buckets? One at a time in a honey cabinet? I have an oven that can be set to 40c but I am wincing at the potential electricity bill for the amount of hours it will need.

 

[Curly green finger's]

How do you warm your honey if you have quite a lot of buckets? One at a time in a honey cabinet? I have an oven that can be set to 40c but I am wincing at the potential electricity bill for the amount of hours it will need.

Single buckets I use a jam maker that holds 1 bucket 24 hrs @ 40c then if it’s not clear I increase temp to 45c for no more than 3 -5 hrs .
Multiple buckets go in the home made cabinet (under counter freezer)

 

[Jules59]

FWIW Ive never really needed a "seed" honey to get my OSR honey to form a lovely smooth paste.

Im surrounded by OSR fields and this year its flowering earlier than ever.

Over the few years Ive been beekeeping Ive found this works for me.

After extracting and coarse filtering , I let it set in bucket until spoon-bouncingly hard - usually 3-5 days.
I then warm to 48C and measure the honey temp constantly.
Once all is liquid I set the cooler to 14C (honey temp) and stir 3x per day (min) until the the desired smooth texture is reached (which often conicides with the bucket going around with the hand-held electric stirrer). This usually takes about 5 days. I then warm to back 30 C and jar up.