How to make frames fit into a top bar hive?

[Hivemaker.]

Can, or would you be able to detect this contamination in other honey,like heather,beans,sunflower,borage ect.

 

[The Apprentices]

Can, or would you be able to detect this contamination in other honey,like heather,beans,sunflower,borage ect.

Most likely but after trying ORS honey I have never eaten any of the monocrop honies, steer well clear of them.
My favourite is Canadian wild clover, that or our own I can handle nicely.

Many people build up a reactions to these chemicals I ended up with Fibromyalgia a few years ago and since changing to home grown vedge and RO water filtration we are leages better.

 

[topbar]

living in Spalding linconlshire where it's all farms few trees you can often taste the chemical and smell it stronge in the air when they are out spraying the fields, its a sad dead site a field of one crop constantly being fed with man made fertiliser and controlled with insecticides. You cant tell them there wronge or that there's a better way, the better way takes time and they haven't got time. They are farming for today and nothing else.

fraser

 

[Tom Bick]

Topbar its not all to be blamed on the farmer they just are part of it and often have no choice even if they know its wrong.

We all have a part to play if we want to change.

 

[Hivemaker.]

living in Spalding linconlshire where it's all farms few trees you can often taste the chemical and smell it stronge in the air when they are out spraying the fields, its a sad dead site a field of one crop constantly being fed with man made fertiliser and controlled with insecticides. You cant tell them there wronge or that there's a better way, the better way takes time and they haven't got time. They are farming for today and nothing else.

fraser

Sounds like you live in hell,pleased i don't live in such an awful place, and i would not stay there if i were you.

 

[madasafish]

And the end result of such monoculture is:
http://www.calmnatural.com/eating_healthy
"
Dr David Thomas, a nutritionist, believes that modern horticulture methods together with new varieties of crop, longer storage times and long-distance transport have caused changes in the nutritional value of the foods we eat. Some other specific reasons are:

1) We are losing mineral-rich top soil
The world is losing arable topsoil at a rate of 75 to 100 Gt. per year. At this rate it is estimated there is only another 48 years of topsoil left. Over-farming, loss of protective ground covers and trees and lack of humus have made soils vulnerable to erosion. The world is fast running out of the good soil in which to plant food.

2) Soil that is left is deficient in minerals
Soil needs time to reconstitute itself, and new food production techniques with emphasis on output give it no time to recover its health. There is no provision to make up for lack of minerals in the soil other than the NPK (Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium) chemical fertilizers which are liberally used. NPK fertilizer is highly acidic—it disrupts the pH (acid/alkaline) balance of the soil and destroys microorganisms that change soil minerals into a form usable by plants. In the absence of these microbes, these minerals are unavailable to the plant. Stimulated by the fertilizer, the plant grows, but it is deficient in vital trace minerals. Nutrients like magnesium are being taken out of the soil via the crops that are harvested but are not being replenished by any method.

"









http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/nutrition.html

"Carrots used to be better! - Vegetables grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today. The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion: Modern intensive agricultural methods have stripped increasing amounts of nutrients from the soil in which the food we eat grows. Sadly, each successive generation of fast-growing, pest-resistant carrot is truly less good for you than the one before.

A landmark study on the topic by Donald Davis and his team of researchers from the University of Texas (UT) at Austin’s Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry was published in December 2004 in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. They studied U.S. Department of Agriculture nutritional data from both 1950 and 1999 for 43 different vegetables and fruits, finding “reliable declines” in the amount of protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and vitamin C over the past half century. Davis and his colleagues chalk up this declining nutritional content to the preponderance of agricultural practices designed to improve traits (size, growth rate, pest resistance) other than nutrition
"

 

[topbar]

my land was totally impoverished and as a result there was not any worms just hard clay, the level of the soil must have dropped because land next to it was higher than mine from where tractors had been working one field over the years. But there is so much life there now in a short time.
I am a tree surgeon and all the tree wood chip is spread on the land around planted trees, and the worms are back, they love it. Spiders jump around on the wood chip on a sunny day and bird life hangs around this land more than any where else in the area.
It doesn't take long to get life back and putting back the natural woodland floor seems to be the best thing. Hopefully when i can no longer work my trees will be self improving the soil and i will have done my bit. Farmers arnt to blame government needs to make the change, a farmer can't farm these days because of the way things have gone, we are too reliant on doing things quick and for the moment instead of looking ahead to what problems we may be causing for the future.
They studied U.S. Department of Agriculture nutritional data from both 1950 and 1999 for 43 different vegetables and fruits, finding “reliable declines” in the amount of protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and vitamin C over the past half century. Davis and his colleagues chalk up this declining nutritional content to the preponderance of agricultural practices designed to improve traits (size, growth rate, pest resistance) other than nutrition. Well found stuff madasfish.
So if it looks good don't eat it. It sad when you find you don't want to eat the things that are meant to be good for you!

 

[topbar]

Sounds like you live in hell,pleased i don't live in such an awful place, and i would not stay there if i were you.

It does really but my family moved out to the country because out here it was affordale housing ,we had lived on council estates before and thats not a bundle of fun. All the nice tree e places are usually expensive to live in, except if i went to scotland, and if i could afford to and didn't have a business here i probably would.

 

[The Apprentices]

Topbar its not all to be blamed on the farmer they just are part of it and often have no choice even if they know its wrong.

We all have a part to play if we want to change.

That's right.

Be the change you want to see

 

[The Apprentices]

And the end result of such monoculture is:
http://www.calmnatural.com/eating_healthy
"
Dr David Thomas, a nutritionist, believes that modern horticulture methods together with new varieties of crop, longer storage times and long-distance transport have caused changes in the nutritional value of the foods we eat. Some other specific reasons are:

1) We are losing mineral-rich top soil
The world is losing arable topsoil at a rate of 75 to 100 Gt. per year. At this rate it is estimated there is only another 48 years of topsoil left. Over-farming, loss of protective ground covers and trees and lack of humus have made soils vulnerable to erosion. The world is fast running out of the good soil in which to plant food.

2) Soil that is left is deficient in minerals
Soil needs time to reconstitute itself, and new food production techniques with emphasis on output give it no time to recover its health. There is no provision to make up for lack of minerals in the soil other than the NPK (Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium) chemical fertilizers which are liberally used. NPK fertilizer is highly acidic—it disrupts the pH (acid/alkaline) balance of the soil and destroys microorganisms that change soil minerals into a form usable by plants. In the absence of these microbes, these minerals are unavailable to the plant. Stimulated by the fertilizer, the plant grows, but it is deficient in vital trace minerals. Nutrients like magnesium are being taken out of the soil via the crops that are harvested but are not being replenished by any method.

"









http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/nutrition.html

"Carrots used to be better! - Vegetables grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today. The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion: Modern intensive agricultural methods have stripped increasing amounts of nutrients from the soil in which the food we eat grows. Sadly, each successive generation of fast-growing, pest-resistant carrot is truly less good for you than the one before.

A landmark study on the topic by Donald Davis and his team of researchers from the University of Texas (UT) at Austin’s Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry was published in December 2004 in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. They studied U.S. Department of Agriculture nutritional data from both 1950 and 1999 for 43 different vegetables and fruits, finding “reliable declines” in the amount of protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and vitamin C over the past half century. Davis and his colleagues chalk up this declining nutritional content to the preponderance of agricultural practices designed to improve traits (size, growth rate, pest resistance) other than nutrition
"

If you hav'nt yet look up the the film

On Man One Cow One Planet

by Mike Porter for the full story.

 

[Brosville]

"Topbar its not all to be blamed on the farmer they just are part of it and often have no choice even if they know its wrong"

-can't entirely agree with that - having spent awhile in farming, all the pressures are to "go with the flow", many moons ago I set up a free-range egg farm (before it became mainstream) - I had the NFU reps and the Min of Ag and Fish telling me I was an eejit, that the hens needed and preferred their safe cages, clipped beaks, and a diet (containing dried poultry manure, synthetic colourants and a cocktail of broad-spectrum antibiotics), without which they'd sicken and die, and our farm would become a source of disease for any surrounding flocks of "properly kept" birds........ (notice any parallels yet?).
I decided to ignore their blithering idiocies, booted the NFU rep off the farm, and treated the Min of Ag and Fish's nonsense as it deserved. At that time the "powers that be" worked deliberately to stop farmers becoming organic - if you used the chemical methods you'd get full subsidies, if you went organic you'd lose the lot.......
I learnt rapidly that those two bodies were completely in the pockets of "Big Ag", and sang from their hymn sheet - nothing would appear to have changed - the farmer does have a choice, but you won't be popular with "the establishment" if you "do it differently" - there's a lot of money and influence being exerted to stop you....

I'll plug a video too - "Farm for the future" - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2750012006939737230

 

[The Apprentices]

In the film are all the facts and figures of how much land is being used to grow food today which is pretty small when compared to say the Bronze age, where just about all available land was used for food production.

We are fast reaching a stage where land will become underproductive no matter how much false food you throw at it, then it will not be food that we are eating.

We are constantly being told stories about the oil running out and its equivalent energies which a known fact is that a single barrel/42 gallons holds the same energy package as 12 adults working manually for a 12 month period, it doesn't take much working out what will eventually happen within a very small time scale if it does start to run out.

As I call it, the FFFP, False Food Feeding Program is on borrowed time, the four fold yeild that it currently provides us will plummet way behind the pre FFFP era because the land will be unable to provide the natural essentials for natural growth, and an ever hungry populous will not have the time it needs to bring the land back up to the natural balance needed for maximum natural output MNO, as Cuba so abruptly found out in 1990 when the then Soviet system collapsed.

If we do not start the change over several years before the land is no longer viable and the FFFP begins to ease we could see well over half the worlds population vanish by 2050 which is how current models predict.

The natural pace of nature is evident and the prediction is real.

When you hear live speculations like, If you control the food you control the people, it does'nt take a genious to see what is happening in our current food oawastis.

 

[Tom Bick]

Fair point Brosville and I am not against you on this, but you say you set up a free-range farm was this your own venture or working for a farmer wanting to go a more natural path?

Also you refer to “before it became mainstream” obviously after you had moved on or the farmer had to go mainstream so as to sell to a market and a demand from the consumer, if this is the case then this only backs up my claim that the farmer often has no choice. It’s a case of go with the rest or go out of business.

Thankfully today we see thing differently and it is easier for farmers to go organic with a more educated and aware customer.

 

[Brosville]

It was about 30 years ago - I was keeping some chooks "for fun", found that people really wanted my free-range eggs, so I set the farm up "off my own bat" with the help of a business partner. We wanted to go completely organic, but it just wasn't economically feasible, so we went "second best" and kept them free-range, and fed them on a diet free of antibiotics and synthetic colourants, and advertised the eggs as such. We also registered as a packing station, so produced the eggs, sold as many as we could "at the farm gate", and packed and sold direct to retailers in the area, and built up a sound base of customers on a "no locked doors" policy on the farm - customers were welcome to collect their own eggs if they wanted to, and we used no "chemicals" whatsoever, and had some of the healthiest flocks in the county (according to the local flockmaster).
One of the most gratifying things was that we had several customers who'd drive long distances for our eggs, as they'd discovered that their otherwise highly allergic kids didn't react badly to them - to add perhaps the only "safe" protein source to a kid's very limited diet was very gratifying - particularly if they had the joy of collecting them from the nestboxes themselves.........
Eventually we were faced with the choice of borrowing a lot of money to move and expand, or sell out to someone nearby with a large concern run on similar lines (the market was by then "taking off"), so we sold out to them, and I went off to "pastures new"

 

[The Apprentices]

"Topbar its not all to be blamed on the farmer they just are part of it and often have no choice even if they know its wrong"

-can't entirely agree with that - having spent awhile in farming, all the pressures are to "go with the flow", many moons ago I set up a free-range egg farm (before it became mainstream) - I had the NFU reps and the Min of Ag and Fish telling me I was an eejit, that the hens needed and preferred their safe cages, clipped beaks, and a diet (containing dried poultry manure, synthetic colourants and a cocktail of broad-spectrum antibiotics), without which they'd sicken and die, and our farm would become a source of disease for any surrounding flocks of "properly kept" birds........ (notice any parallels yet?).
I decided to ignore their blithering idiocies, booted the NFU rep off the farm, and treated the Min of Ag and Fish's nonsense as it deserved. At that time the "powers that be" worked deliberately to stop farmers becoming organic - if you used the chemical methods you'd get full subsidies, if you went organic you'd lose the lot.......
I learnt rapidly that those two bodies were completely in the pockets of "Big Ag", and sang from their hymn sheet - nothing would appear to have changed - the farmer does have a choice, but you won't be popular with "the establishment" if you "do it differently" - there's a lot of money and influence being exerted to stop you....

I'll plug a video too - "Farm for the future" - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2750012006939737230

Many of the larger corporate leaders in food are now buying up the farms that are growing the food they sell and we eat, they have been duped into the mono ethical mind set to their cost, told when, how much and what they need to buy in order of getting the higher yeilds to sell at rock bottom prices.

We thus support our eventual downfall by buying from these crooks, sharletons and people thevies.

These same corporate bodies have also just put forward in the EU for a further 9 percent duty to be placed on all biofuels present in diesel.

When they have full control our food will no longer be cheap from these people, the early warning signs are sowing themselves.

 

[oliver90owner]

.....all the facts and figures of how much land is being used to grow food today which is pretty small when compared to say the Bronze age, where just about all available land was used for food production.

You jest, of couse. A quote like that is rediculous.

 

[Drew]

.....all the facts and figures of how much land is being used to grow food today which is pretty small when compared to say the Bronze age, where just about all available land was used for food production.

You jest, of couse. A quote like that is rediculous.

Mmmmm True! but you let...

If we do not start the change over several years before the land is no longer viable and the FFFP begins to ease we could see well over half the worlds population vanish by 2050 which is how current models predict.

Go without comment.

@The App - could you show me the models predicting population decrease at this level? Or indeed population decrease?

 

[Brosville]

I'm not keen on quoting figures as they'll always be disputed, but I think we need to face the fact that the present systems of feeding the "developed world" are "on a hiding to nothing" - they are based on false and inaccurate models based on sheer economics ("cheap" inputs) as pointed out so well in the "Farm for the Future" video, and it is in fact a rather stupid and short-sighted way of going about things.
We're shortly about to be subjected to a concerted campaign by the GM companies (aided and abetted by Caroline "owns a GM lobbying company" Spelman), which actually will only help place the entire food chain into the hands of such amoral multinationals as Monsanto - the US is putting immense pressure on Europe to accept this frankencrap - I hope we have the sense to resist, as all it will do is accelerate the despoilation of the environment by continuing "high tech" farming using gobbets of fossil fuel inputs, which also renders the countryside sterile and soon leaches all of the "goodness" out of the land.
There are far better and genuinely sustainable ways to proceed, pioneers like the permaculture movement, and the inspirational Fukuoka show that we can actually increase yields per acre, and add to the soil's fertility - sadly there is a great deal of "muscle" on the side of "Big Ag" who seek to preserve our planet-wrecking ways for the good of their profits....

I'll not predict dates or numbers, but unless we mend our ways, and pretty rapidly, there will be widespread starvation for many of the world's population, and all the unrest that will go with it - add in the effects of climate change, we face a pretty worrying future............

 

[Drew]

<...waffle and cliched moonshine from a soapbox....>

Bros
I actually have sympathy with quite a lot of your views but - Sorry to say you don't half come across as a bit of a "broken record" at times.

I know you are probably really committed and you are trying as hard as you can to convince the world but.............

 

[oliver90owner]

Go without comment.

After reading that opening paragraph, I didn't bother with the rest. Rather assumed it would carry on in the same vein. Can't be doing with sifting through claptrap to sort out the truth from the chaff.