How to Kill Off a Colony??

[Dewin Dwl]

I have a vicious colony. Not the slightly bad tempered, I mean NASTY, genetically bad. For example I've just been followed by some 200bees to my shed where I had to spend a quiet fifteen minutes killing them one by one.

The plan was to kill the queen then merge the remaining psychotic with a small colony so it has its numbers boosted for winter preparations. However, the usual methods of seek out and kill the queen have failed. These manoeuvres in themselves are hairy, even having moved the hive some 60yds from its usual place and left the flyers to syphon off. Before someone gets hurt I need to kill this colony. However, it has some useful stores for one of my smaller colonies so 'poisoning' isn't top of the list.

Any ideas? Ideally I want the minimum time with the lid off.

These are nasty bees so no soft-hearted answers. These must go.

 

[mystil]

If you shake off all the bees off the frames well away from the hive that should get the queen outside the hive.

However if they are as nasty as you are saying I would either use abit of petrol to kill them off (have heard of it but not how to do it) or just leave them to swarm next year and naturally re-queen.

Maybe move them away from your main site and let them get on with it.

 

[keith pierce]

if the small conoly is close enough to the nasty hive then just move the nasty hive to the other side of the garden and all the flying bees will go into the small colony. this will strip out most of the bees and you will be able to find the queen a lot quicker

 

[xgeordie]

or just leave them to swarm next year and naturally re-queen.

Yeah, that's good advice - someone else's problem eh? very responsible.

 

[susbees]

If you shake off all the bees off the frames well away from the hive that should get the queen outside the hive.

However if they are as nasty as you are saying I would either use abit of petrol to kill them off (have heard of it but not how to do it) or just leave them to swarm next year and naturally re-queen.

Maybe move them away from your main site and let them get on with it.

You kidding? Natural swarming just gives the same problem to someone else. There are beekeepers who pride themselves in the handle-ability of their stock, and ones who want to do the right thing like the OP even when a challenge.

The old books mention the use of puffball smoke to stupify their bees. Stupified bees sieved, Q-, reQ. Mind we see precious few giant puffballs here and not sure if the small ones are any good. Bit of research needed.

The divide and conquer principle - moving the hive away, waiting an hour or so then splitting the frames into several boxes and waiting again, firstly makes finding the queen easier (as in you can tell which box she's in quite quickly and less places to look) AND the flyers should return to the empty box on original site AND in smaller lots they should be less nuts.

I know how it feels to be pinned down the far end of the apiary by a load of bees bent on suicide. Sympathies. If you get really stuck there is at least one very experienced beekeeper on Anglesey.

 

[susbees]

Yeah, that's good advice - someone else's problem eh? very responsible.

Quite, was "composing" as you posted...

 

[jakethedog]

if you've an open mesh floor you may be able to block the door at night and then burn a sulphur candle underneath the hive. would remove the immediate problem. i think that you're doing the right thing here, uniting a colony like this to a smaller one could possibly result in the loss of the good queen.

as for letting them swarm? if i ended up with a colony like this in my wall cavity because a beekeeping neighbour had failed to take the situation in hand it wouldn't only be the bees that would be facing an early demise!

 

[Cazza]

If you really want to kill the colony, petrol is probably the quickest way but you can't re-use the frames.

You need about a 1/3 of a honey jar full. Seal up the colony,(solid floor.) Pour the petrol over the crownboard, leave for 24 hours. Done.

Cazza

 

[Poggle]

So, I take it that non of the fly/wasp sprays out there are any good for destroying a hive? Block the entrance and spray up through the mesh floor?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you really want to kill the colony, petrol is probably the quickest way but you can't re-use the frames.

You need about a 1/3 of a honey jar full. Seal up the colony,(solid floor.) Pour the petrol over the crownboard, leave for 24 hours. Done.

Cazza

I thought you needed a pint or two on a rag above crown board - dead in 10 minutes.
Otherwise, move nasty hive 6 feet or so from original position, leaving an empty hive in its place - wait for flying bees to move to empty box in old position, much smaller colony of nurse bees to go through to find queen.

 

[Poly Hive]

If you can hang fire some one will be along who will take them off your hands.

If you were closer that would be me but sadly it's a bit far.

PH

 

[milkermel]

OK so maybe this is totally impractical and i have never needed to kill off a hive,

Are we talking just a brood box? if so would it be possible to close hive down at night, strap it all down then put the whole box into a chest freezer???

I know that not everyone has a large chest freezer . . . but if you did could it be done this way

 

[Dewin Dwl]

Cheers everyone. I'm going to give the divide and rule system another shot this morning then its napalm....well not quite but it will be rough. I just want to kill the queen and the remaining brood so her lineage is stopped. The surviving bees (crazy as they are) and the food stocks would be handy to boost a smaller hive for the winter. The nasty bees will then be all gone by early spring. I don't like killing bees but if I can't remove the genetics then its got to be carnage.

NO I am not going to let them swarm: these are NASTY and the genetics need to be stopped. Even letting her drones out seems irresponsible

I am not prepared to pass them on. I am happy with feisty but these are league unto themselves!!

Pulled some 150 stings out of my kit after this morning sortie. Kit now hung-up being smoked in the shed ready for the next attack. I'll have my Epipen between my teeth like an Erol Flinn pirate!!

 

[Dewin Dwl]

Oooooooh! I like the freezer plan. I do have a chest freezer lying mostly empty in the garage. It is just a brood-box that now needs sorting. If I can't find Q then its the big freeze.

Elegant! Almost James Bond stuff.

 

[johnandyrob]

The bees would just cluster

 

[oliver90owner]

To find the queen. Another way in addition or as part ofsome of the previous suggestions.

If you can put up with the aggro, place a couple frames of brood in a separate box on the floor. Shake all bees (all frames free of bees - well, certainly free of the queen) into the bottom box and replace the brood box over a Q/E. Return the following day and remove the top box and then deal with the queen in the bottom box.

No beekeeper worthy of the craft needs to exterminate a whole colony just for one bee, except in very exceptional circumstances. This circumstance here does not fit the exception.

The suggestion of using cans of fly spray did not come from an experienced beek. It is simply a non-starter.

RAB

 

[For want of a better word]

If you have looked at the Skep beekeeping vids......

Shake all the bees from the hive into an upturned skep
Go through the mass of bees and find the queen
Place her to one side
Tip remaining bees into an empty brood box placed above the brood box of a weaker but nicer colony/ hive
Fit in some brood frames

Take old queen and send her to the Tower!

You may wish to dress up in a bit more protection than Herr Meisterbeekeeperer !

My granddaughter lives in Anglesea so do not want any stingie bees around!!!!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Even letting her drones out seems irresponsible

Drones produced by her may be perfectly okay,it's the drone line she mated with you need to get rid of.

 

[peteinwilts]

No beekeeper worthy of the craft needs to exterminate a whole colony just for one bee, except in very exceptional circumstances. This circumstance here does not fit the exception.

I picked up a downright nasty colony from Southampton a few months back, who were also threatened with the petrol can. the colony was huge and had hundreds of followers follow me back to the car.

even being near the colony gave multiple stings.

As it was such a large colony, I stood no chance of finding the queen. My hands were covered in stings just by entering the box.

I divided the colony into four hives to reduce the numbers. I doubled up on clothing and found out which had brood\queen cells a week later. Those without eggs were given new peaceful queens.

That left the still strong colony with the nasty queen. I divided again, and gave a new queen to the queenless colony.

Unfortunately with the crap weather, I ran out of time with my search I have not yet found the nasty queen and will probablyn now postpone the search until next year. (although I might have a quick look today!)

The four new colony's are no longer a problem.

What I don't understand (other than destroying a city to kill a single psycopath!!), is why you are doing this in October.
It will be cooler in a few days and they are bedding down for Winter.

If not found today, I will be hunting for my problem queen on the first warm day in spring. There will be reduced numbers of bees, and small amounts of brood making my task easier and more localised.

If for whatever reason you can't do it, give them to someone that can!

 

[jakethedog]

obviously Dewin knows his location in a way which I can't and as such also knows that it's safe to divide the colony in the way described; the thing which I think should be given some space here is that in many locations such a proceedure is totally inappropriate with such bees.

Ok, he may be able to get into the brood chamber and remove the queen and brood (although lets remember that he has already moved the brood chamber ninety feet from it's original location to syphon off the field bees and is still having difficulty) but no one has mentioned the fact that the returning foragers are not going to be best pleased with their change in circumstances -now, in a suitably isolated area that's not a major issue, but if there are neighbours, pedestrians, pets or even worse, cars with windows open just over the hedge then it could become a major problem.

As I've noted already, I'm not doubting Dewin's location/facilities but just suggesting that anyone else, being in a similar situation, who reads this thread for advice at a later date should give this some serious consideration: to get away with syphoning off (or shaking out) field bees from such a colony as this -even if we give them some combs of brood- requires a location that dosen't present the bees with multiple targets to sting and chase. as for a driver being stung in the eye......