How to bring bees and fondant together

[Melbee]

Hello. First colony, first winter.

The super with stores in is below the brood box in my WBC. The bees are clustered on top of the super, below the brood box. I've put fondant in a tub over the hole on the top board and the bees are not coming up through the brood box frames to get it.

1. They may still have sufficient stores and not need the fondant (one possibility)
2. If they won't move up to get, would it be an idea to remove some of the brood frames and put the block of fondant directly onto the super below.?

This was suggested at a meeting I went to but it does seem rather drastic.
Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

First check they have stores. Is the hive heavy? Then leave them alone.

I have a colony on brood and super under and most of them are well down the box. I'm leaving them alone as they have adequate stores.

Can you swap the boxes around?
Lift the top box. Get assistant to slip a crown board on top of the nadired super and lift on top.
If you choose a day when the temperature is high enough for the bees to be mobile any that get left behind on the bottom of the brood box will be able to get back up to join their sisters.

 

[drstitson]

presumably you went into winter with a full super (under) AND a full brood box? ie a brood and a half full of stores. If so they should be ok.
if you mean all/most of the stores were in the super only then you have a problem and at high risk of isolation starvation.

my suggestion would be a 1-2x frame feeder(s) of some sort - 1" sheets of fondant sandwiched between QE or even chicken wire.

or try as above and swap boxes around.

 

[einsteinagogo]

sorry, to hijack thread....where should the bees be located now?, will they go back down to stores e.g. super. I went into the winter (first winter) on a brood and a half of full stores (17kg/24kg - hive weights on parcel scales before moved boxes around). At present I've noticed they've been clustered and lively in the brood box (as I've seen them through clear crown board, running around on top of frames, when they were OAed!) last week.

so once, they eat all their stores in BB, will they go down to super and eat stores, I'd read that they move around the hive and eat, and move up to the the BB, resulting in an empty super, in the spring....

but can they move into the BB to early, and starve? (if they do not go down to feed!).

I have a luggage scales, which I'm going to fix and get some live weights, but hefting a single hive, is still dauting, when nothing to compare with, other than it still feels very heavy!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Provided the weather stays around 8-10º the bees can move around to the stores wherever they are. The problem arises when there is a prolonged cold period when the cluster can get isolated from stores as they are unable to move over the empty frames. In this case you can shine a torch to see if the adjacent frames are empty. If they are you can move a full frame next to them. If you are not confident doing that.....and it can be done very easily and quickly..... put a layer of fondant directly on the top bars over the cluster

 

[einsteinagogo]

Provided the weather stays around 8-10º the bees can move around to the stores wherever they are. The problem arises when there is a prolonged cold period when the cluster can get isolated from stores as they are unable to move over the empty frames. In this case you can shine a torch to see if the adjacent frames are empty. If they are you can move a full frame next to them. If you are not confident doing that.....and it can be done very easily and quickly..... put a layer of fondant directly on the top bars over the cluster

that was the piece of the puzzle I was missing, temperature! Now I understand better, and hence why they cluster to conserve warmth. So colder weather they cluster, well insulated hive, they will be more active and walking around the hive and frames! (eating stores!).

 

[pargyle]

that was the piece of the puzzle I was missing, temperature! Now I understand better, and hence why they cluster to conserve warmth. So colder weather they cluster, well insulated hive, they will be more active and walking around the hive and frames! (eating stores!).

Not necessarily... they don't consume stores in order to generate heat to keep them warm when the hive is well insulated. So, in well insulated hives the bees tend to consume less ... perverse isn't it ? DerekM has the maths .... beyond my ability - I just read the books and watch the bees ...

 

[Moggett]

Sounds like a small colony.

I have one doing the same, but it is the runt colony compared to the others.

I pressed some soft fondant over the cluster on the frames and left the rest above the crown board. I did this last week so it was not too cold and some came up to take it. I also listened by pressing my ear to the brood box before I left the apiary and could hear them moving around to investigate. I did this last week and the sister colonies were flying so it was mild. You can also normally tell if they're taking fondant by the sugar debris on the monitoring board.

The OP needs to get this resolved ASAP - especially if it's their only colony.

 

[REDWOOD]

I use 14x12 brood boxes (the same as brood and a half) and bees are always well down the box and very rarely come up for some fondant probably because they can store more in a big box and don't need it

 

[Melbee]

Thank you for all the comments. The bees went into winter with a full super and had also taken on board several litres of Ambrosia. I could hardly lift the boxes!

However I will remember the advice about swapping the boxes round.

 

[oliver90owner]

Melbee,

Shallow supered or nadired -remember convenience usually costs more. More info later.

RAB

 

[Erichalfbee]

RAB, please share with the rest of us?
Miss your posts.

 

[drstitson]

"The bees went into winter with a full super and had also taken on board several litres of Ambrosia."

how full of stores was the brood box before feeding ambrosia?

it can take several GALLONS of syrup to fill a standard brood box, especially if starting from empty. several litres is neither here nor there.

 

[Melbee]

The super was a shallow one and full of honey.
The brood box had stores as well at the last full inspection, end of summer. They took down approx 18.5 kg of Ambrosia. I fed them until they stopped taking any more.

 

[drstitson]

okay - so you had more than adequate stores to overwinter. unless the whole hive feels excessively light the reason they are 'stuck' downstairs is because they are still using the lower stores and haven't needed to move up.
fondant not necessary unless heft feels light on hefting. sounds like it's still stuffed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

okay - so you had more than adequate stores to overwinter. unless the whole hive feels excessively light the reason they are 'stuck' downstairs is because they are still using the lower stores and haven't needed to move up.
fondant not necessary unless heft feels light on hefting. sounds like it's still stuffed.

 

[Melbee]

Okay. Thanks to both DrS and JBM. My anxiety levels are beginning to come down having been up around the ceiling for the past 24 hours or so.
I will still try and heft the hive when I can find someone to help me.

 

[Moggett]

Maybe go into next year with a spare colony in a nuc, in addition to any full colonies you have?

I used to have 6 colonies but have cut down to 2 now. Plus I also over winter a nuc. I do this because I've been in a similar position in the past and at least this way I have all my bee eggs in more than one basket!

I actually like the challenge of successfully getting small colonies through winter in plywood nucs tbh. May try wintering a poly nuc next time to compare.

Good luck.

 

[Melbee]

Interesting idea. Thanks