How many Queen cells?

[Compostcritter]

Completed an AS today, left three queen cells and destroyed the rest. Did I do right?

 

[tonybloke]

Completed an AS today, left three queen cells and destroyed the rest. Did I do right?

I tried leaving 3 last yr in a split, result?
swarm with first queen hatched, she's now heading a decent sized colony,
the other 2 queens? well, one killed the other ( saw the body) and then failed to mate.
best practice is to leave just one ( pref unsealed) cell.

 

[drstitson]

one, preferably unsealed. and check again in 5 days to ensure others haven't been made.

 

[tonybloke]

bugger, two beekeepers agreeing! LOL

 

[Finman]

Completed an AS today, left three queen cells and destroyed the rest. Did I do right?

Sometimes the brood hive swarms with new virgin. It is same if you leave 3 or 13.
You may put virgings into prison behind the excluder. That I am goin to use. I do not have destroyed queen cells but swarming happens sometimes.

To leave one queen cells is not right either. That only one may be dead or may have some other violation.

 

[tonybloke]

Sometimes the brood hive swarms with new virgin. It is same if you leave 3 or 13.
You may block the hive with excluder that a new queen does not go. That I am goin to use. I do not have destroyed queen cells but swarming happens sometimes.

To leave one queen cells is not right either. That only one may be dead or may have some other violation.

it's why the advocacy of leaving an unsealed queen cell, finman

 

[Compostcritter]

That's a first! Lol
Probably not the best weather over the next week to go and remove the other two. Looks like they will have to fight it out. Shame really because I actually knew the answer.
Thanks for the quick responses

 

[tonybloke]

don't worry about the weather, as long as it's not actually raining, the operation shouldn't take 2 minutes. get in there and sort it!

 

[Compostcritter]

What happens in the wild as they must leaves shed loads of queen cells when they swarm?

 

[MuswellMetro]

bugger, two beekeepers agreeing! LOL

you spoke too soon

I was told to leave two on the same frame

 

[Finman]

.
Life teaches...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do I recall ITLD saying he leaves one sealed cell?
No.....I couldn't find it but found this http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11474&highlight=sealed+queen+cell

 

[drstitson]

leaving two is an insurance gamble. always chance of a cast if in a full sized colony. probably less likely in a nuc.

better to leave one good cell.

assuming frame(s) with queen cells marked with drawing pin then destruction is a rapid process - could be done in a downpour if absolutely necessary!!!!

From the link given above: "Mentor told me to leave all the big ones" - BUT not TOO big - very long cells indicate larvae that have become separated from pool of food at early stage so will be duff.

 

[Swarm]

Mine always seemed to swarm when I left two.

 

[drstitson]

precisely - you almost guarantee getting a queen emerged but equally likely get a cast too!

 

[rae]

We left several in each split last year and got loads of casts. This year we have split 3 ways leaving one cell in each. If any don't mate, they'll be merged.

 

[oliver90owner]

I always left two, when I only had few colonies. Never had a cast. Perhaps I was luckier than some, but moving the hive, at the appropriate time, is the means of avoiding casts. Done too early, there will be a large number of foragers, done too late they will be swarming before. And some bees (probably better out of the gene pool) will cast at the 'drop of a hat'.

One reason for them going a second time is that some beeks don't think of how the system works, and leave the super(s) with the queen cell colony. That is, of course, asking for a cast.

But, hey ho, some out there who do not follow the carefully developed instructions properly, would not be expected to think of subtleties like that. I am expecting at least some of the replies to this thread come into that category.

With larger numbers of colonies the approach may be somewhat different. Banked queens can avoid the need of a brood break.

Splitting three ways, as Rae has done, is good for those wishing to increase but will really hammer the amount of harvested crop (OK it is Brother Adam, this year).

The alternatives are there, if one thinks about it.

 

[drstitson]

"One reason for them going a second time is that some beeks don't think of how the system works, and leave the super(s) with the queen cell colony. That is, of course, asking for a cast."

are we assuming here that the supers are full of foragers?
won't they leave at first opportunity and return to original site (ie before virgins emerge).

"Splitting three ways, as Rae has done, is good for those wishing to increase but will really hammer the amount of harvested crop "

especially if like last year the flow dries up during the expected main harvest (like now when flow should be on many were feeding or finding full supers emptied in days). I had successful go at walk away split last may 19 and all 3 nucs and a keiler had brood+++ by 26 june. BUT no crop.

 

[oliver90owner]

are we assuming here that the supers are full of foragers?
won't they leave at first opportunity and return to original site (ie before virgins emerge).


Not all. There will also be many 'nectar-to-honey' processing bees. They will be flyers, but not foragers. And with a lesser intake of nectar (foragers gone next door), less brood to service, etc it all adds up towards throwing a cast. Straw and camel's back comes to mind.

 

[bobster]

Interesting thread ...

I did a split (artificial swarm) on my bees about two weeks back when I found a queen cell, with larvae, being well fed.

There were a number of other queen cells in the centre of the brood area but none had larvae in.

Queen was moved down one end with a few combs (no queen cells!). Queen cell brood left in the centre minus the queen. Hive then rotated through 180 in order to get foragers back with the queen.

I did not destroy the other queen cells. My philopsphy being if I did so the bees would simply create more. But isn't the timing crucial here. If the bees have eggs available won't they just make more queen/emergency cells. So if you're going to go in and start destroying queen cells don't you have to wait a few days for any eggs to hatch first?

Both colonies, are still in the hive two weeks on. Old Queen is laying. I'm giving the new queen another week (cold,wet and miserable at the moment (the weather)) before I have a look and see if the magic has happened.

Though there was a lot of activity yesterday with the new queen colony. Lots of pollen going in, but as we know, that is no guarantee that the new queen is mated and laying. And I think the timing is too soon.

Bobster