How many frames in nuc for beginner?

[AndreaW]

I have the chance to get some 3, 4 or 5 frame nucs at various prices. Are there any benefits of starting small or is it detrimental - less likely to cope or something? Not sure. As a newbie what would you recommend? Obviously the 3 frame nuc is kinder on the pocket!

Thanks

 

[Finman]

.
3 frames nuc is really too small. It is slow to grow. It takes months that it occupye the whole box.

5 frames is good. It depends how much it has capped brood.
It grows faster than 3 or 4 frame nucs.

If 5 frame nuc has 3 frames of brood, after 4 weeks it occupye one whole box or more. Then it grows normal way.

ask to clip the queen's wing.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have the chance to get some 3, 4 or 5 frame nucs at various prices. Are there any benefits of starting small or is it detrimental - less likely to cope or something? Not sure. As a newbie what would you recommend? Obviously the 3 frame nuc is kinder on the pocket!

Thanks

Are the Nucs National standard brood size,14x12 or the Commercial 16x10 which is quite common in Essex

why do i ask, well i think 16x10 and 14x12 five frame Nucs are a bit large

 

[AndreaW]

They would be Commercial frames, sorry should have mentioned that ;-)

 

[enrico]

Clip the Queens wings???? I wouldn't. There are better ways to discourage swarming without disfiguring your matriarch!!!

 

[Finman]

Clip the Queens wings???? I wouldn't. There are better ways to discourage swarming without disfiguring your matriarch!!!

It is an insuarance for a beginner.

 

[Finman]

five frame Nucs are a bit large

What is wrong with that? It is even able to bring honey in late summer and easy to nurse.
It takes care itself.

When I started beekeeping I bought swarms, I found that 4 kg bees = 2 langstroth box is a good beginning. It brought 40 kg honey and payed itself in first summer.

When commercial beekeepers sell nucs, 5 frames is an ordinary size.

.

 

[MuswellMetro]

They would be Commercial frames, sorry should have mentioned that ;-)

thought they would be Commercials as you are an Essex Girl

ok, i would think a five commercial frame nuc with a capacity of about 35000 is two big for a starting Nuc that's 50% more than a five frame National standard Nuc

i have NO EXPERIENCE OF COMMERCIAL hive BUT i am just repairing a 14x12 three/four/three triple box for my demaree swarm control / increase,

so my view is go for something smaller than 5 frames of 16x12

 

[rae]

The nice thing about a nuc for a beginner is that it is manageable. You can learn all of the basics inspecting a nuc, and they are a lot less formidable than a full hive. You don't want a massive nuc!

A national nuc should be three good frames of brood, one of stores and one that needs a bit of work. It is very difficult to sell real 5 frame nucs, because if they are full of brood, they will be ready to swarm in a week or so - an overcrowded nuc will swarm.

A commercial nuc has bigger frames, so, just like a 14x12 nuc with 3 frames of brood, is is equivalent to a standard nuc with 5 frames of brood. That's a pretty big nuc - close to a small colony in a national brood.

So my gut feel would be if a 3 frame nuc = "3 of brood, one of stores and one needing work", then that is more than big enough on commercial or 14x12 frames. If 3 frame actually means 1 brood, 2 stores and two foundation, then it is pretty small.

 

[broandy]

The nice thing about a nuc for a beginner is that it is manageable. You can learn all of the basics inspecting a nuc, and they are a lot less formidable than a full hive. You don't want a massive nuc!

A national nuc should be three good frames of brood, one of stores and one that needs a bit of work. It is very difficult to sell real 5 frame nucs, because if they are full of brood, they will be ready to swarm in a week or so - an overcrowded nuc will swarm.

Bang on

 

[Finman]

The nice thing about a nuc for a beginner is that it is manageable. You can learn all of the basics inspecting a nuc, and they are a lot less formidable than a full hive. You don't want a massive nuc!

A national nuc should be three good frames of brood, one of stores and one that needs a bit of work. It is very difficult to sell real 5 frame nucs, because if they are full of brood, they will be ready to swarm in a week or so - an overcrowded nuc will swarm.

A commercial nuc has bigger frames, so, just like a 14x12 nuc with 3 frames of brood, is is equivalent to a standard nuc with 5 frames of brood. That's a pretty big nuc - close to a small colony in a national brood.

So my gut feel would be if a 3 frame nuc = "3 of brood, one of stores and one needing work", then that is more than big enough on commercial or 14x12 frames. If 3 frame actually means 1 brood, 2 stores and two foundation, then it is pretty small.

Real nonsence!

According this a beginner cannot bye a normal hive because it has so HUGE brood. Same with a normal swarm. After a week it has 6 frames og brood . SO MUCH!

3 frames nuc is handycap. You learn nothing from that hive.

You love toys. Nothing to learn about that.

 

[Finman]

.
SECOND QUESTION:

"I have a nuc and bees do not draw the foundations. What I do?"

---one hives owners answer: feed feed and feed.

Not to mention that "nuc" has half frame of brood and it is in 12 frames box with mesh floor

That "nuc" does nothing. It is shivering in the corner of the box.

 

[oliver90owner]

It is shivering in the corner of the box.

Nah, probably lost right in the middle of the box - losing heat in all directions!

You are correct - a nuc, by definition, is simply a small viable colony, but complete and able to expand normally. Trouble is a nuc in June probably gets away to a good start, even though dumped in a large box, because the conditions are good. That experience then perpetuates itself and becomes 'all nucs can be transferred to a full box on arrival' (also often advised by the vendors, too - and they should know better!).

Trouble is, the new beeks either don't read these threads before they get their bees or forget any sage advice and follow the most recent offering as gospel.

I am going to 3 frame nucs this year - 14 x 12s - as they are equivalent to 5 deeps - and they will be in poly (so cosy). There is still the problem of 'stores balance' - both honey and pollen must be available for them to expand rapidly.

Regards, RAB

 

[drstitson]

as per other posts, aside from the issue of what frame size, what is actually on the frames you buy matters one hell of a lot.

 

[AndreaW]

So my gut feel would be if a 3 frame nuc = "3 of brood, one of stores and one needing work", then that is more than big enough on commercial or 14x12 frames. If 3 frame actually means 1 brood, 2 stores and two foundation, then it is pretty small.

Have asked the beekeeper to expand on what his 3 frame nucs are. Thanks will let you know.

 

[Finman]

now after winter I have two 2-frame colony and some under 5-frame colonies. They are not able to grow because they are able to warm only a tiny brood area. Their life is difficult.

It takes over month that i get emerging brood from big hives. I aid with brood those tiny colonies. When they have one box full of bees they take care themselves. After that this size hive takes two months that it is able to forage surplus honey.

In summer I use 3 frame mating nucs.

 

[BBG]

Your shed

Thanks for the photograph MM, at last I can show my wife that proper sheds have bits of wood stuffed under the bench, shelves with clutter and ditto drawers. Home Sweet Home!

Regards

BBG