How many bees are good to have now?

[Browntea]

Ive just had a look in today through the glass quilt after feeding some fondant, and the ball of bees seem to cover 6/7 frames,position is front of the hive over the entrance.

Will i have a reasonble size colony here enough to give me a good start next year?

Thanks

 

[Tom Bick]

Well you still have some way to go but if you are covering 6-7 frames then at this time of year that is looking good.

But don’t be tempted to keep looking it only disturbs the bees.

Good look

 

[Vergilius]

Long way to go, and some important info not provided, but as TB says, it sounds alright at the moment....

Ben P

 

[Finman]

.

6 frame winter ball is small. If you have in Marsh 4 frames of bees (alive) it takes several months that the colony is ready to hunt honey yield.

10-15 frames is good.

Before spring lots of bees may disapper from cluster. We see then. No one can say what happens.
It is difficult to see or know, how big the cluster actually is.

If you want a good winter cluster, the work happens in summer. But learning...beekeeping needs experience many years.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Browntea,
Seems like a reasonable number to me.

Finman is just bragging again!!

In all seriousness, different bees behave differently in winter so there is no hard and fast rule. Some bees always have a compact brood nest and will fit in a National all summer without bother and get a decent honey crop in a bad year where a different strain may do worse and need feeding more.

 

[drex]

In my first year I had 6-8 seams of bees in my Nationals ( Finman runs big colonies) when I did my oxalic acid in Jan, and they got through OK, and I had a fair crop the next year.

As he says it needs years of experience and I am still only beginning to gain some confidence in my abilities.

As long as you have prepared as well as you can:-
healthy bees, hives in good order, plenty of stores, insulation, mouse and woodpecker deterrents, there is not much more you can do except:-

Leave them alone.

I will OA in Jan, provided the chill keeps going, and heft to judge stores and do what needs to be done if light. They went into winter with plenty so should be OK, but I will see at the time.

I know it is difficult to keep out of the hive when you are starting, but it is the best thing you can do, especially at this time, and if you do open up, then have a good reason for doing so and a plan with what action you will take, depending on what you find.

 

[richardbees]

Sorry Finman but I disagree

He's not seeing the winter ball, he's just seeing the bees tempted up for the fondant.

I've got a glazed cover board and a healthy colony in a National BB, midwinter in an average year, has visible bees from 6 frames to nil depending on the temperature.

 

[Browntea]

Firstly thanks for all your replies,

Just to clear up I've put fondant on today for the first time, so I'm not seeing just the bees tempted up, this is how my mentor gives it to his, as he says we like a Xmas gift and so do the bees!

It's been freezing up here for about a week now so I was just making sure they had fondant on before the weather gets worse! Also havnt looked in the hive for some time now so it was reassuring to see that they seem ok!

Mentor was not available today to talk to so I needed to know that I had a reasonable amount in the hive, no better place to come than here, Thank you all very much

From a very keen and sometimes worried new trainee beekeeper

 

[richardbees]

Browntea,

Two questions:

Did you fully feed your bees syrup in Autumn? ..... and how many 'seams' of bees were in sight under the glass before you added the fondant?

maybe your mentor knows something I don't!

richard

 

[Browntea]

Yes Richard been feeding on and off since I inherited them last march I swapped the super to below brood earlier on not sure when right now but I could not believe the weight of a full super never mind the bb, so plenty of stores

I'm not sure what is meant by seams so when I looked in today to feed fondant I saw bees in a roughly shaped circle about 6/7 frames wide

I will add they did stop taking syrup too so I gather from that that they had enough?

 

[Onge]

Ive just had a look in today through the glass quilt after feeding some fondant, and the ball of bees seem to cover 6/7 frames,position is front of the hive over the entrance.

Will i have a reasonble size colony here enough to give me a good start next year?

Thanks

Just leave them be. Theres naff-all you can do anyway.

I've had really small colonies come through and become massive.

The more you leave them to do there thing the better results you get. Or so i've found.

 

[drex]

super + BB and "plenty of stores" - so why give them any more in the form of fondant?
heft to check stores ( it soon becomes natural to judge - or use a spring balance) and leave them alone

 

[drstitson]

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that you'll have less bees today than yesterday.

 

[drex]

so Dr S, you don't believe in miracles or Santa either

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If you have a full super under brood, it's unlikely that you'll need to feed. Bees don't need a Christmas present.

As drex wote, the best thing is to leave them be at this time of year.

 

[richardbees]

Browntea,

OK - from what you've replied; your colony is big enough and has adequate stores to see them through winter without feeding fondant.

It'd be interesting if you (politely) asked your mentor why he/she thinks you should feed fondant?

'seam' is the gap between each frame......I'd not come across it as a beekeeping term before oxalic acid treatment started.

Richard

 

[Browntea]

Richard

I did speak to him tonight and he did say that I probably wouldn't need to feed it given the fact I had been feeding so much, I guess its just me been over cautious seeing as its my first ever colony! Like so many have said I will leave well alone now just a visual check outside the hive to monitor the number of dead. Many thanks

 

[Rosti]

It'd be interesting if you (politely) asked your mentor why he/she thinks you should feed fondant?

If it were me I would answer "having lost colonies through starvation because they became isolated from sound available stores the addition of fondant as a centrally located additional energy reserve is a pragmatic additional precaution especially when you have a low number colonies and / or colony loss would cause a significant set back"

If you add to that a very warm autumn/early winter in some parts then the likelyhood of increased activity and a faster burn of stores increases the chance of later isolation/starvation. Best act now.

 

[Leigh]

Strong colonies in the spring can be a mixed blessing....in an ideal world, we'd all like them to be that way, but in practice, a stonking colony early on will likely as not have it's heart set on swarming as early as possible. Whichever method you use to control the swarming, timing their expansion to the main honey flow is a dark art. Strong spring colonies can of course take full advantage of oilseed rape, but by the time this has finished flowering, you will have a monster on your hands. Artificial swarm control will be a necessity....unless a huge one slips out and you are lucky enough to catch it...this new colony will be a beaut come July.

Colonies which did best for me last season were those I considered weakest in the spring - their build-up was slow, but they reached their peak during the bramble flow. Mind you, last season was another odd one weather wise. I seem to be rambling here...what was the question? Oh yes...how many bees is good at this time of year? Ok....more bees generally gives them the greatest chance of making it through to spring, and surviving the massive die-off that will follow whilst the new bees are being bred...they will build up quickest the more bees there are to cover the brood area, but whether a huge early build up is what you need/want is another matter.

 

[richardbees]

Rosti , I agree with your logic up to a point but still think it's too soon to slap fondant on as imo it can deter them forming a cluster in advance of the probable January cold weather..