How black is a black bee?

[Apiman]

This bee, on the winter savoury in my garden, is much darker than the bees in my hive. But is it a black bee?

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[Swarm]

Probably not, more likely a mongrel.

 

[Robbo8916]

I asked myself the same question when I raised my two new queens. One is as black as night and the other is golden coloured. Sadly all the mixed genes in there have produced two completely different sisters.

But they are nice calm bees so that is a bonus. Pics attached for reference of difference:

(Both sealed and hatched around the same time)

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I asked myself the same question when I raised my two new queens. One is as black as night and the other is golden coloured. Sadly all the mixed genes in there have produced two completely different sisters.

But they are nice calm bees so that is a bonus. Pics attached for reference of difference:

(Both sealed and hatched around the same time)

I have exactly the same thing. I assume the darkness is Carni genes coming through. Should help calmness too.

 

[masterBK]

Due to independent segregation of chromosomes and crossover which occurs during meiosis in the ovaries of the queen why would one expect to retain linkage between colour and calmness?

 

[Swarm]

You wouldn't. It's like mixing tea and coffee and expecting to taste one or the other.

 

[REDWOOD]

black bees don't have ginger hairs.

 

[For want of a better word]

One quick check ... other than calmness on the comb, ability to forage when Mediterranean ilk are sulking and general superiority is simple wing morphometry... a negative discoidal shift is a dead give away to Amm genetics !!

Carniolian crosses with others seem to produce an aggressiveness unseen in pure Carniolian !!... ask B+

Yeghes da

 

[The Drone Ranger]

One quick check ... other than calmness on the comb, ability to forage when Mediterranean ilk are sulking and general superiority is simple wing morphometry... a negative discoidal shift is a dead give away to Amm genetics !!

Carniolian crosses with others seem to produce an aggressiveness unseen in pure Carniolian !!... ask B+

Yeghes da

Lot depends on local drone population regards temper



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[bontbee]

black bees don't have ginger hairs.

According to one local native bee fan, they do. And should be referred to as the native brown bee for that reason. Carnies tend to have grey hairs I am told.

 

[REDWOOD]

Some interesting reading;
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/amm.html

 

[B+.]

Some interesting reading;
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/amm.html

I find this site a bit tainted nowadays. I knew Dave Cushman quite well but a lot of the stuff thats been added recently is Roger Pattersons view and its not always clear which is which

 

[B+.]

Carniolian crosses with others seem to produce an aggressiveness unseen in pure Carniolian !!... ask B+

Yeghes da

I have heard things about Carniolans that I find it hard to reconcile with my experience of the island-mated Carniolans I am used to. I think you need to be very careful where you get any stock from and test them yourself (as I have said many times) so you are absolutely sure you have what you think you have.
Now, when you open mate anything in an uncontrolled environment, you will lose some of the benefits you had in the original stock. It stands to reason - there is no such thing as a free lunch! You can't get something for nothing. This is why I only use island mated or instrumentally inseminated queens in my test apiaries.
I wouldn't say that open mated queens are excessively aggressive though. I have about 30 open mated daughters of 6-1-1037-2015 at an apiary quite close to my home. They are much better than anything I have seen around here but, you have to give them time for the daughters to take over the guard/foraging duties. Its no good putting a good queen in a colony made up from a swarm and assessing them as though they are her daughters. They're not.

 

[REDWOOD]

To be honest who does know what the native British bee looked like, we have no colour photos or a good description, the closest I have come was a few paragraphs by brother Adam. I have a colony of black bees with the distinct narrowing between the thorax and abdomen but they have ginger hair. They are a small colony and very calm bees but a bit runny on the frames which is the complete opposite of Brother Adams description of being Evil

 

[BeeJayBee]

How black is a black bee?

I'd guess the picture at the top of this site should be about right? http://nihbs.org/

 

[yeogi75]

I find this site a bit tainted nowadays. I knew Dave Cushman quite well but a lot of the stuff thats been added recently is Roger Pattersons view and its not always clear which is which

Dave's view are in black Rogers are in blue as stated at the start of the web site if using the new site I don't know if it refers to the old site thou

 

[psafloyd]

I asked myself the same question when I raised my two new queens. One is as black as night and the other is golden coloured. Sadly all the mixed genes in there have produced two completely different sisters.

But they are nice calm bees so that is a bonus. Pics attached for reference of difference:

(Both sealed and hatched around the same time)

I had a queen a few years back that was like ebony all through her abdomen. Looked lovely but didn't last long.

 

[Teemore]

To be honest who does know what the native British bee looked like, we have no colour photos or a good description, the closest I have come was a few paragraphs by brother Adam. I have a colony of black bees with the distinct narrowing between the thorax and abdomen but they have ginger hair. They are a small colony and very calm bees but a bit runny on the frames which is the complete opposite of Brother Adams description of being Evil

ROB Manley mentions native/near native bees in his books and his descriptions are not entirely in keeping with the idea that they are poorly tempered...

Ireland has pockets of native bees. The Galtee Group long since recognised this. Some of the less developed counties saw much less (if any) importation of bees from other countries.
http://www.native-queen-bees.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/queen.jpg

 

[Cussword]

I'd guess the picture at the top of this site should be about right? http://nihbs.org/

Now that's black!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ROB Manley mentions native/near native bees in his books and his descriptions are not entirely in keeping with the idea that they are poorly tempered...