Hive very quiet

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marmite

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My second hive is very quiet and has never been very strong. I inspected this week and although plenty of bees on 6 frames, there was no brood or larva.I didn't see the queen although she was there last week when there was some brood. I'm on my second treament for varroa (I know I am a bit late) and they have taken in a lot of sugar although they have now stopped.Is there anything I can do?
 
My second hive is very quiet and has never been very strong. I inspected this week and although plenty of bees on 6 frames, there was no brood or larva.I didn't see the queen although she was there last week when there was some brood. I'm on my second treament for varroa (I know I am a bit late) and they have taken in a lot of sugar although they have now stopped.Is there anything I can do?

6 Frames ? I would dummy them down or get them into a well insulated Nuc, or insulate your hive. Let them get on with their prep for winter and stop looking in ...

Your queen could have stopped laying as a result of your varroa treatment - What did you use and how did you use it ? Did you have a problem with varroa ? Have you seen a lot of varroa killed as a result of the treatment ? How do they look ... quiet bees can be a sign of Nosema ?

A bit more info will get you a more comprehensive response.

There's a lot of Ivy about in some areas so they should still be foraging but you really need your queen to start laying again as you need winter bees in the next few weeks or you will struggle to get them through.

You might consider combining them with your other hive to bulk up their foraging bee population over the next week or two if they are still flying ... it means you will go into winter with one colony but a pretty strong one ... but only if the 6 frame colony is healthy.

There will be lots more comments from some very experienced beeks along shortly no doubt ...
 
If its very quiet and a small colony get the varroa treatment off and then feed. The varroa treatment will probably be putting the queen off laying which is what you do not want this time of year.
 
If its very quiet and a small colony get the varroa treatment off and then feed. The varroa treatment will probably be putting the queen off laying which is what you do not want this time of year.

My varroa treatment is due off 26th Oct, did I start too late?
 
I'm on my second treament for varroa
and
marmite said:
26th October
are inconsistent. If it were my colony, which it is not, I would immediately stop treatment and await developments IF we are talking about Apiguard (whcih saeems to be what you are talking about). With no sealed brood, meaning that treatment might be complete anyway, I would see bees as more important than mite treatment. Again, if it were my colony, I would not feed because the weather is meant to hold up and I would not want to block the box. Just my inexperienced 2c, having been through something a bit similar.
 
Probably, what treatment did you use and what sort of drop rate have you got now ?

Im using Apivar, still warm here, up to 28 this week, stormy now for a few days but still warm forcast

I am feeding also
 
This is more an on-topic shoutout than specific advice, but you might be another case of a high dose on a less-than-full colony. I think we as a body should look at the effects of this.
 
Quote:Originally Posted by*marmite*I'm on my second treament for varroaand

Quote:Originally Posted by*marmite26th October

are inconsistent


I'm not surprised. I don't see a marmite quoting a date anywhere. Is this second quote not from an entirely different poster?

"My varroa treatment is due off 26th Oct, did I start too late?"

YES


Half way down France? Probably OK, but not sure.
 
Last edited:
That it is Apivar clears it up; 42 days. I saw "second treatment" and thought Thymol. Not sure why two Apivar treatments are involved. But it means taking it off is likely to have less impact and something else is going on.

<ADD> in which case my question would be does she have room to lay?</ADD>
 
The treatment was Apilife var and it had the second dose last tuesday(Oct 1st) I've put a piece of hardboard over the mesh to see if there is any varroa but haven't examined it yet.
The other hire is very strong and I have recently converted it to a brood and a half by putting the queen excluder above one of the supers.(It had a lot of rapeseed)

I'll insulate the weak hive this weekend stop the Apilife and as they are not taking any more food I can put some kingspan over the crown board and round the outside of the hive with a bungee . Do I insulate the floor ?
 
With no brood at all any varoa will be loose in the hive and the period of treatment contact you have had already will have been as effective as its likely to be now.
Remove treatment, dummy and insulate and only feed if they need it. If there is no brood and you are feeding they will fill up the space where the brood should be.
If disease is not an issue consider taking a super full off bees off your second hive (your words seem to indicate it has 2) and unite them into this hive.
In both cases if the supers are empty remove them
 
late treatments - usually get away with it

FWIW
I'm using Apiguard this year. I don't think I've ever managed to get all treatments done and dusted by end of September which is my notional target. It will probably hit me badly one year but it seems October is generally a mild month giving a few weeks grace. It's actually warmer now than most of September. Varroa levels also seem very low anyway, but I wasn't brave enough to skip treatments. However, some colonies have such a low drop that a 2nd treatment seems pointless.
 
Im using Apivar, still warm here, up to 28 this week, stormy now for a few days but still warm forcast

I am feeding also

SORRY THIS THREAD IS A BIT CONFUSING AS THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE BUT SIMILAR QUERIES GOING ON FROM TWO POSTERS.

This is a response to ail901 ...

Apivar is recommended as a 6 week treatment so you are about a third of the way through. It's intended to be used after your supers come off late summer whilst it is still reasonably warm and the bees are active. There is no problem with feeding at the same time .. indeed, feeding encourages the bees to move around the hive and will increase the effectiveness of the strips as the active ingredient is spread by the bees walking over it and spreading it around the hive. It works by paralysing the mites and they then drop off the bees onto your sticky board where they starve to death or are eaten by earwigs etc. Assuming of course you have an OMF. So, you are a little late in treating but with your climate it may be possible to continue for a while ... The critical thing you need to consider is the point when your bees will naturally cluster for the winter ... by then you need to have the majority of your winter bees hatched and enough food in the hive for them to survive the winter. There will be local climate and forage conditions that you need to consider.

At present, it all depends upon the state of your colony:

1. Did they have a measured Varroa problem ... if so, you should continue to treat until the drop reduces to an insignificant level or it stops. Apivar is a slow acting contact treatment and there is some known mite resistance to it so you should check in your locality if Apivar is still usable and effective ..

2. Have you got brood and eggs and is the queen laying ? It's important that you build up your winter bees so if the treatment has slowed or stopped your queen laying then that's not good and Apivar CAN stop the queen laying ... although Apivar is not an aromatic treatment so there's less likelihood of it affecting other normal colony functions.

So you have a bit of a balancing act on your hands ... Varroa treatment vs. Winter build up. It may not be very helpful but it's your call .. get it wrong and you could lose your colony from either ...

For my money, and I'm no expert, unless you are seeing a significant mite drop I would stop treatment, take the strips out and let them sort themselves out for winter. You can always return in the spring with another Apivar treatment (or something else) before the brood starts to build up if you have got a varroa problem then. But be cautious with Apivar .. as I said, it's got form for mites building resistance to it in some areas and this is one of the reasons it's not used as much these days.
 
There are two of us posting about the date for varroa treatment
and are inconsistent. If it were my colony, which it is not, I would immediately stop treatment and await developments IF we are talking about Apiguard (whcih saeems to be what you are talking about). With no sealed brood, meaning that treatment might be complete anyway, I would see bees as more important than mite treatment. Again, if it were my colony, I would not feed because the weather is meant to hold up and I would not want to block the box. Just my inexperienced 2c, having been through something a bit similar.
 
Im using Apivar, still warm here, up to 28 this week, stormy now for a few days but still warm forcast

I am feeding also

for your location in France it is not too late especial using Apivar which is amitraz but it would be a bit late for Apiguard in the uk, so long as the bees are not in full cluster apivar being a contact treatment will work as it is not temperature dependant like thymol based products

Apivar is not sold on open sale in the Uk but needs to be prescribed by a VET i have used it but by the time you add vets fees in the UK it is very expensive
 

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