Hive monitors

[Beegarden]

I have had a B-Keep monitor (Hostabee) in both my hives this Autumn/Winter. It has been fascinating watching and comparing how both adapt to outside changes and also how they have differed. Firstly, I need to say that the monitors are placed between two frames of brood and luckily both clusters have stayed in the same area. The largest colony hasn't dropped below 30 degrees (32.4 yesterday) since the Autumn but the humidity is currently low, so I am hoping they hold up until the warmer days next week, when they may be able to collect some more water. The other colony is smaller and dropped to non brood temperature of 15 degrees in the first week of January and has remained roughly there. The humidity is however high. Not sure how valid it is, but the monitor calculates roughly how many eggs are being laid according to the relationship between brood temp and humidity The downside is that I have become obsessed with checking on the app each morning and during the day, particularly if one of the readings is hovering at the danger level. My second problem is that I live in a poor reception area and despite having a repeater, the signal has been dropping now and then. I don't think I'll continue with them next year, although I have been intrigued at having an insight as to what goes on inside.

I have uploaded this as a small insight for Cral, although I see most are against these contraptions. I can soon add them to my other experiments/never used items I have accrued. But hey, I enjoyed the experiment.

 

[Adam Maskew]

I’ve use in hive temp and humidity monitors (WirelessTags) and WiFiHiveScales to inform my management. I’m in a Mediterranean climate and found the temp/humidity interesting but not critical in my management decisions and have since let the batteries run out and removed them.

the hive scales as others above have said are the best in helping inform my management.I chose theWiFiHiveScales ass they were the best combination of rice, customability, data send (wifi, mobile, etc), free data hosting and ease of data interrogation and viewing.

adam

 

[polymath]

Hmm I wonder what people are getting out of hive monitoring, A single temperature and humidty monitor tells you very very little about the sophisticated energy management of honey bees and what you do get can be very misleading. The humidity monitor may only be telling you about property of Honey buffering the humidity not about the bees. The temperature monitor may tell you the bees are alive or just that sun is shining on the hive.

If you consider the main measurements around they are:

Humidity, yes found that least useful.
Temperature, challenge here is where is the probe placed, in winter could easily go cold as the cluster moved around and if not where you placed it then would imply dead. In the summer it was re-assuring to see brood at a nice temp and if you suffered a swarm it could tell you when a new queen had come back into lay - see article attached above.
Weight, most useful both in winter and summer re enough stores when to super up etc. My apairies are not in my garden to i have to drive out this made live much easier.
Weather, rainfall and temp, when used in conjunction with other measurements quite useful.
Hive activity level, again could be useful when used in conjunction with other points again see attached document.

If your apiary is in your back garden I would question the need, with out apiaries they did prove quite useful.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It really annoys me when bee keepers come out with the do you really need it quote. Well let me tell you some of us are interested in the science where and why’s and we don’t want to just steal there honey we have an interest in the bees

You wanted advice, you got advice! You're free to use it or not without throwing a hissy fit

 

[B+.]

I have had a B-Keep monitor (Hostabee) in both my hives this Autumn/Winter. It has been fascinating watching and comparing how both adapt to outside changes and also how they have differed. Firstly, I need to say that the monitors are placed between two frames of brood and luckily both clusters have stayed in the same area. The largest colony hasn't dropped below 30 degrees (32.4 yesterday) since the Autumn but the humidity is currently low, so I am hoping they hold up until the warmer days next week, when they may be able to collect some more water. The other colony is smaller and dropped to non brood temperature of 15 degrees in the first week of January and has remained roughly there. The humidity is however high. Not sure how valid it is, but the monitor calculates roughly how many eggs are being laid according to the relationship between brood temp and humidity The downside is that I have become obsessed with checking on the app each morning and during the day, particularly if one of the readings is hovering at the danger level. My second problem is that I live in a poor reception area and despite having a repeater, the signal has been dropping now and then. I don't think I'll continue with them next year, although I have been intrigued at having an insight as to what goes on inside.

I have uploaded this as a small insight for Cral, although I see most are against these contraptions. I can soon add them to my other experiments/never used items I have accrued. But hey, I enjoyed the experiment.

The company sent me one of those (free) to try. It didn't work - not a very good advertisement for the product.

 

[derekm]

If you consider the main measurements around they are:

Humidity, yes found that least useful.
Temperature, challenge here is where is the probe placed, in winter could easily go cold as the cluster moved around and if not where you placed it then would imply dead. In the summer it was re-assuring to see brood at a nice temp and if you suffered a swarm it could tell you when a new queen had come back into lay - see article attached above.
Weight, most useful both in winter and summer re enough stores when to super up etc. My apairies are not in my garden to i have to drive out this made live much easier.
Weather, rainfall and temp, when used in conjunction with other measurements quite useful.
Hive activity level, again could be useful when used in conjunction with other points again see attached document.

If your apiary is in your back garden I would question the need, with out apiaries they did prove quite useful.

The weight measurement is the best of them, as it truly is a summed parameter of the entire colony, whereas temperature and humidity tell you about a single point in a complex system. Measurements of temperature and humidity without an understanding of the thermofluids of the nest is a doubtful exercise.
I think what most get out of monitoring is reassurance, rather than information

 

[Charli]

I'm working on a DIY hive monitor, loosely based on this solution: Instructions - HoneyPi
Only mine saves values locally to a database instead of using the internet- no phone signal where my bees are

I don't do it because I need it, but because it is interesting! I work in software for a living, and have an interest in electronics. Getting solr panels and batteries and things at the apiary was a good challenge!

 

[Cral]

Thanks to the people who actually read the thread, and gave a reply to my question.

I didn't come here for the "do I need it discussion", I came here to see if I could find someone with some experience in what does work, and what didn't work. I'm not that much smarter, but there were a few good comments between everything else.

 

[pargyle]

Thanks to the people who actually read the thread, and gave a reply to my question.

I didn't come here for the "do I need it discussion", I came here to see if I could find someone with some experience in what does work, and what didn't work. I'm not that much smarter, but there were a few good comments between everything else.

Unfortunately, you can't sensor what advice you receive on a public forum - this one is never censored for legitimate content ... if people feel that the right advice to give you is that you don't need it then you have to accept that in the spirit it is given and move on.

This forum is renowned for wide ranging discussions which often move off topic - it's one of the things that makes it . ... With over 300 people currently on line I think it's doing something right. Sadly, if it doesn't meet what you are seeking there's only one solution. Most people appear to stick around and learn or gain from the wide range of advice - as you have found - some of it good. The rest you have to pass over ...

 

[derekm]

Thanks to the people who actually read the thread, and gave a reply to my question.

I didn't come here for the "do I need it discussion", I came here to see if I could find someone with some experience in what does work, and what didn't work. I'm not that much smarter, but there were a few good comments between everything else.

I would focus on a reliable weight measurement system. I have spent the last 9 years studying and researching the factors involved in temperature and humidity in Bee nests and at the moment its not worth the non-researcher getting into as everything obvious, assumed and accepted is more less in error. As an example, I had discussion with my supervisor last week about some thermal simulation results that will upset how we look at airflow in the nest, with repercussions on what we may need to look for in beekeeping. It certainly upset me as it means will have to redo loads of work and write another paper and I hate essays.

 

[Cral]

I would focus on a reliable weight measurement system. I have spent the last 9 years studying and researching the factors involved in temperature and humidity in Bee nests and at the moment its not worth the non-researcher getting into as everything obvious, assumed and accepted is more less in error. As an example, I had discussion with my supervisor last week about some thermal simulation results that will upset how we look at airflow in the nest, with repercussions on what we may need to look for in beekeeping. It certainly upset me as it means will have to redo loads of work and write another paper and I hate essays.

Weight was what we talked about first. Looking into what existed, pointed me towards other systems, with more function. Need to read the pdf that Polymath posted.

 

[frankenstine]

hive monitoring is something that appeals to me altho i plan at some point to build my own monitors, ive doen quite a lot of automotive tuning and it's all about data. to a point it's log everythign you can think of then work out what you want later, on small scale storage of data is basicly free its not expensive to transmit ether now. what really maters is how you prosses the data.

i would think my first one will have 5-10 sensors the mk2 would proablly have 100+ the the next one would have the usefull ones

 

[Boston Bees]

I had discussion with my supervisor last week about some thermal simulation results that will upset how we look at airflow in the nest, with repercussions on what we may need to look for in beekeeping. It certainly upset me as it means will have to redo loads of work and write another paper

Is this you telling us that all the sciencey stuff you have been saying up until now has been wrong?

 

[Apiarisnt]

Has anybody had any experience of 'HiveTool': HiveTool and http://hivetool.net/index.shtml ? A lot cheaper and you can choose what sensors you want, but some tech competence required

 

[derekm]

Is this you telling us that all the sciencey stuff you have been saying up until now has been wrong?

No, Its stuff I hadn't yet published . But the detail of what I have said to date will change e.g. mesh floors.

 

[frankenstine]

Airflow is always a tricky subject. It never flows how you’d expect most of the time it dosent even flow but tumbles anyway.

I have thought about laser scanning an entire hive and going begging where I used to work and running CFD on it. But then realised it was competly pointless as there’s no bees in it bees would break the model anyway. The kit has come on a long way recently but it Wasent that long ago you chould break the model trying to simulate various bees flying
I’ve been thinking about it I recon to have any chance of understanding it you’d need 100’s of sensors. Cheep thermocouples Ina. Matrix top and bottom and a shed load of humidity sensors as well. Air is heavier than you think for wet air is heavier again so for airflow. Tempriture and humidity matter Once we are past the low level data loggers 1000 useable channels isn’t expensive surface mount thermocouples are cheep so I’d just make a pcb top and bottom board.

get a shred load of data then cry when realise something really strange is happening and nothing like you expected. Because that’s airflow

 

[polymath]

Airflow is always a tricky subject. It never flows how you’d expect most of the time it dosent even flow but tumbles anyway.

I have thought about laser scanning an entire hive and going begging where I used to work and running CFD on it. But then realised it was competly pointless as there’s no bees in it bees would break the model anyway. The kit has come on a long way recently but it Wasent that long ago you chould break the model trying to simulate various bees flying
I’ve been thinking about it I recon to have any chance of understanding it you’d need 100’s of sensors. Cheep thermocouples Ina. Matrix top and bottom and a shed load of humidity sensors as well. Air is heavier than you think for wet air is heavier again so for airflow. Tempriture and humidity matter Once we are past the low level data loggers 1000 useable channels isn’t expensive surface mount thermocouples are cheep so I’d just make a pcb top and bottom board.

get a shred load of data then cry when realise something really strange is happening and nothing like you expected. Because that’s airflow

If you are interested in this area look up the work done by Derek Mitchell, he is a phd student and does presentations and writes papers covering airflow in hives and thermal dynamics.

 

[derekm]

Airflow is always a tricky subject....

Definitely...

If you are interested in this area look up the work done by Derek Mitchell, he is a phd student and does presentations and writes papers covering airflow in hives and thermal dynamics.

 

[North End Bees]

@Cral There's a zoom presentation tomorrow evening "ApisProtect - Using Sensor Technology to monitor honey bee colonies" if you're interested. It'll be biased towards their own product obviously but still probably worth a watch in finding out about what's available. It's hosted by FIBKA and their talks are free and open to everybody.

Date: Wed, Feb 17 • 19:30 GMT

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/apispro...ey-bee-colonies-tickets-140976920765?aff=eand

 

[frankenstine]

few things there to keep me quiet for a bit,

i knocked up a couple of sensor pcb desings to go in a hive so they are there for when oppotunity arriese to have them made cheeply see quite a few open source monitor projects but most of them seem to have fizzeled out