Hive in a mess

[whynothot]

I only started with beekeeping last year and need help.

Has a one brood box setup last year, gave them a super on top (brood and half?) to move onto as I didn't have a second brood box, then QE and supers on top for honey.

Overwinter took out the QE and left a super with honey to keep them going on top.

Due to work comittments/weather/new parent jobs, only had a good look at the bees this week - had a few quick peeks to check they were still alive etc previously.

The entire hive, brood box and 2 supers on top are full of bees and brood. They have also created lot of brood between the frames so lifting out the boxes exposed lots of young brood. Can't find the queen, but she is there given the amount of eggs and brood.

How can I sort out this problem? I want to add a second brood box on top of the bottom brood box and get the brood out of the supers. So I end up with two brood boxes at the bottom, then the QE, then supers for honey.

I guess the first step is to find the queen. Unfortunately the bees are pretty agressive according to my bee keeping friends so its not easy.

Any advice much appreciated.

 

[Arfermo]

You must find the Q and when you are sure she is in either of the two BBs down below, put a QE on top of the BBs and leave the brood that is already in the supers where it is until all has emerged. You can then put any further supers on top of the lot if you wish and later remove the supers that had brood in if you wish or leave them where they are and extract any honey that is eventually put in them. Your choice really. At least this would not waste the egg laying that the Q did in the supers.

 

[whynothot]

Only got ONE bb on the bottom, then the 2 supers.

I want to add a second BB above the bottom BB, put a QE above the two BBs, and then put the 2 supers on top of them.

But certainly I need to find the queen. Unfortunately she's not marked and I've yet to identify her

thanks for the advice

 

[galileo]

I'd personally divide the full BB into two boxes (with foundation to fill), make sure that HM is in one of them, put an excluder on both and split the two supers between them above.

All being well, you'll end up with two productive hives, one of which with a new queen. Two hives gives you options you don't have with one. Either way, they're probably close to swarming if they're as full to the brim as your post leads me to assume.

Horses for courses, but good luck and rejoice in a prolific queen.

(added) Splitting as above means you'd only have to search the supers for HM, which will be much easier than trawling through a whole brimming colony. If she's not in the supers, she'll be in one of the BBs and you'll know which one after a week 'cos the one without will be making a new one.

 

[Skyhook]

I would suggest adding the new brood box below for them to expand down into, unless the weather picks up. That way, they're not having to heat empty space until they have it drawn and populated. Perfectly possible without finding the queen, but be careful not to lose her- very easy to drop her outside the hive, trust me I know.

So, roof off and placed alongside hive. Smoke heavily from the top to drive the bees down. Lift off the first super and place it on the roof. Repeat. This will reduce the population of the supers. Now put the crown board on the supers to stop them all going back in.

Place the BB on top of the supers. Dont be tempted to clean off the floor, she may be on it.

New BB onto floor. Old BB on top of it. Then shake each super frame off over the BB. With most of the bees shaken off you can check the queen isn't on that frame, then put it aside into a spare super box ( according to my maths you have at least one spare), covering with a towel as you go to retain heat. When you've done the first super, bang the last bees off the box back into the hive, then repeat with box 2.

Now put the QE on and replace the supers . The workers will come straight back up, but HM can't, job done. As the brood emerges the workers will clean out the cells and use the supers as supers.

If the weather turns warmer you can just place the new BB on top, which would simplify things.

The bees aren't going to like it much, so check the neighbours kids aren't playing on the other side of the fence; your suit is sealed to your wellies, your gloves sealed to your suit, you've got long sleeves under your suit, and the zips are done up. Then just ignore the bees protests.


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[Finman]

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My opinion is that excluder and find a queen are not very important in this case.
If the hive has so much brood, it will expand very fast.

Get more supers and foundation frames.

Brood between frames.....it should not bee if distance between frames is normal and frames are tightened after inspection.

How many frames you have in a box ?

The case sounds good because colony is going well. As an one year beekeeper feeling is uncomfortable. At least I would be proud about strong hive, but combined to hot habits...

Get more room to the hive and ask some experinced beekeeper to evaluate, what is going there.
Impossible to say, where that mess comes from. Does the hive make much burr or what?

 

[Excession]

I totally get the need for some order, and if the bees are fiesty and putting you off manipulations, it will be a chore.

Why not:

Move the hive away a little bit, placing an entrance, the new BB and a crown board in the old position. All flying bees will return there and leave you free to go through the old BB till you find the queen.

Then return the old BB (with Q) to the original site with QE on top, and supers above that.

You can then sort out the supers once the brood has gone.

Also if bees are aggressive, maybe requeen? Shame though, as it sounds like they are doing really well!

 

[yeogi75]

bye the sounds of what you are saying is that the supers are stuck together, and the brood box also , you've tried lifting the top super off , and exposed lots of brood that ripped apart as you lifted them, sacrifice a few bye getting a piece of thin wire wrap around each end bits of wood like cheese cutter, then place wire between supers and pull thru ,hopefully cutting thru wax and not loose too much comb, hope that help it does work but very fiddly on own

 

[Tom Bick]

I think it would be good if you could get someone close to you to give you a hand in sorting it out.

Its probably not that bad and nothing that has happened before but a bit of experience will make the job so much easier.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you want two colonies, I would be putting a brood box under the present one and popping in a queen excluder above the current deep. In three days time eggs will show where the queen is and go from there. She should be easier to find on shallow frames, or you may be luck and not need to look for her if she is in the bottom box. They will back-fill the shallows with honey and they will revert to being supers (honey collecting boxes).

Splitting the colony and accepting emergency queen cells is not the best route - far better to wait three weeks for the brood in the current shallows (not supers) to emerge and then demaree, for queen cell production in the top brood box, before splitting for increase.

Of course, all the disruption may lead to swarming anyway, and an A/S, but that is life with bees.

Seems as though you may need less feisty bees and rearing a new queen from these may be irrelevant, but that is another story.

RAB

 

[Finman]

.
You have not succeed to spoil your hive's build up, but following these advices in this forum, you succeed to destroy the hives. Treamendous advices.

Don't let poo into your pants!

3 boxes in a hive and forum is in panic! Split, splat, shake, stroke, brush and kick.

 

[galileo]

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Split, splat, shake, stroke, brush and kick.

Didn't they do okay with "The Legend of Xanadu" back in the 60's?

Sorry Finman, the devil made me do it.

Cheers

 

[Finman]

Sorry Finman, the devil made me do it.

Cheers

Does Devil has more important to do?
.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Qxs between all parts will allow you to find out where q is first. Then rearrange to have box with q on bottom. All else can them be emptied as brood hatches. Takes some time but less hassle than sitting and jiggering around with poor bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I only started with beekeeping last year and need help.

Has a one brood box setup last year, gave them a super on top (brood and half?) to move onto as I didn't have a second brood box, then QE and supers on top for honey.

Overwinter took out the QE and left a super with honey to keep them going on top.

Due to work comittments/weather/new parent jobs, only had a good look at the bees this week - had a few quick peeks to check they were still alive etc previously.

The entire hive, brood box and 2 supers on top are full of bees and brood. They have also created lot of brood between the frames so lifting out the boxes exposed lots of young brood. Can't find the queen, but she is there given the amount of eggs and brood.

How can I sort out this problem? I want to add a second brood box on top of the bottom brood box and get the brood out of the supers. So I end up with two brood boxes at the bottom, then the QE, then supers for honey.

I guess the first step is to find the queen. Unfortunately the bees are pretty agressive according to my bee keeping friends so its not easy.

Any advice much appreciated.

First impression (on night watches in the channel at the mo. so thought processes/time a bit sparse!)
move supers underneath existing brood box, new BB on top wait for them to draw comb and for queen to move up then consider your options (with the size of the setup I would put QX over supers with second entrance above, then wait for the brood to emerge)
What is your eventual plan/objectives with this hive?
Whereabouts exactly in God's own country are you?

 

[Taffy]

Where do you live, Whynothot, send me a personal message, and I`ll come over and sort your hive out!!

 

[REDWOOD]

To sort out the mess between frames I would do a Baileys

 

[Finman]

.
Guys hey!

1#
There 3 boxes full of bees and good amount of brood ....what special is in that? Every hive goes trought that stage. First 2 boxes, then 3 and then 4......

2#
if you do not have excluder and they are sold out, what would you do next without excluder. You have only 4 free boxes and foundation frames to boxes....

3#
what to do?
I put a foundation box on fourth place and wait that bee occupye it.

Free advice.

 

[Finman]

To sort out the mess between frames I would do a Baileys

before that try to use brains.

Good heavens that gang

 

[whynothot]

Thanks for all the advice given - much appreciated.

I sorted out the hive today whilst it was really hot - particulary with a jumper on under the suit to stop them getting me (again)

Went thru the two supers, didn't find Q, but put them on a QE on the top board just in case she was there. Found the Q in the middle of the brood box after lots of searching.

Made up a second BB with drawn out frames and put this on top of the lower brood box. Took two frames from out of the middle of the lower BB and put them in the middle of the top BB, moved all the frames together in the lower BB and filled the outside gaps with two drawn out frames. I followed the advice given in 'The Practical Manual of Beekeeping' which advises putting the second BB on top of the first and moving a frame or two of capped brood up into the second BB.

I have also continued with spring syrup feeding just in case. Time will tell I guess.

And the bees were reasonably docile for once - the good weather must have put them in a good mood

Thanks again