Hive deaths

[robmort]

3 of my 5 hives have died during the recent cold spell, as I discovered today. 2 are poly, the other wood all with plenty of insulation above the crown boards. There were no signs of life at the entrances so looked in at the transparent crown boards to find them dead.

Plenty of stores on the frames near to the centres, but apparently they died of cold and/or starvation. No signs of disease.

 

[blackcloud]

What was your varroa regime this year?

 

[Erichalfbee]

3 of my 5 hives have died during the recent cold spell, as I discovered today. 2 are poly, the other wood all with plenty of insulation above the crown boards. There were no signs of life at the entrances so looked in at the transparent crown boards to find them dead.

Plenty of stores on the frames near to the centres, but apparently they died of cold and/or starvation. No signs of disease.

Where were the dead bees? On the floor or on the frames.
What did you do for varroa and when?
If the colony dwindles they do starve. Too small to keep warm and access stores.

 

[Ian123]

The recent cold spell was minimal healthy bees survive far more extreme conditions. Whilst the cold may have been the final straw other issues would have been the cause.

 

[robmort]

First OA vap was on 10 Dec. All were treated with OA towels in Sept/Oct. The 3 dead colonies were smaller than the other 2 but had done OK during the season.

 

[Erichalfbee]

OA towels in Sept/Oct.

I would never trust those as my sole varroa treatment and in my opinion Sept/Oct is too late
Likely they dwindled due to varroa

 

[blackcloud]

Obviously too late now robmort,at least you can get the kit scrubbed up for a reboot,but I think you could allow yourself to be much more proactive as far as mites are concerned.
Im a complete nazi with the evil sods-as soon as the honey is off ,they get the first course,and early December-ish will be the third.
I havent lost a colony (touches skull)since adopting this policy.

 

[oxnatbees]

First OA vap was on 10 Dec. All were treated with OA towels in Sept/Oct. The 3 dead colonies were smaller than the other 2 but had done OK during the season.

Sorry to hear of your losses. Best to be consider this a learning opportunity and focus on that.

So they died a few days after you vaped them...(!)

Can you tell us more about the ambient temperature that day, and your vaping method?
Do the 2 surviving colonies suddely have a lot of dead bees too?
What can you tell us about the appearance of the dead bees? Black damp, rotted on the floor? Lots with heads stuck deep in cells, far from stores? Did lots try to exit the door or did they die in the hive?
Could the entrances have been blocked by snow / ice? (Suffocation).
Do the hives have open mesh floors? (Cooler, but permit OA fumes to dissipate)?
Any neighbours who hate your bees? (Possibility of poisoning).
Any idea of varroa drop levels?

 

[robmort]

Varroa levels had been monitored continuously since August and were OK. All hives have OMFs with varroa boards in during colder weather. The hives are in sheltered place well away from houses. The temperature, like everywhere else, was below freezing all day for 10 days from 8th Dec, no snow. Vaped with electrical heater below the OMFs. Dead bees mostly on the floors, dry, no sign of rot. Some bees died with their heads down in the cells. Entrances were all clear. One hive had bad attack of wax moth that had eaten the tops of 2 frames but all grubs had also died in the cold.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Varroa levels had been monitored continuously since August and were OK.

How?

 

[oxnatbees]

OK, puzzling. So we can probably rule out starvation... Though... Isolation starvation often occurs because the bees are raising brood and refuse to leave them, then run out of accessible, immediately adjacent food (within 1-2") and freeze. This seems unlikely as you're not reporting a LOT of bees with heads deep in cells, but let's just try and rule that out -
- Were there stores immediately contiguous with the brood?
- Were most of the dead bees under the brood area (likely) or all over the floor?
I imagine there was variation between the 3 hives but worth asking. It's possible they weren't even cold enough to cluster, in a poly hive.

What kind of hives were the surviving ones? Particularly well insulated? You already mentioned they were larger colonies.

Did you remove queen excluders? Sometimes people forget to, and the cluster won't abandon its queen and dies below the supers full of food.

To be honest I strongly suspect vaping is a lot more lethal than people acknowledge. I've seen comments like "oh yeah a few hundred bees always die" but as I've never vaped I am not sure of the truth of that.

 

[robmort]

See the pictures for the stores and their position next to dead bees.

No QEs. No supers on. Remaining 2 hives, one poly one wood, were stronger and just as well insulated.

 

[blackcloud]

To be honest I strongly suspect vaping is a lot more lethal than people acknowledge. I've seen comments like "oh yeah a few hundred bees always die" but as I've never vaped I am not sure of the truth of that.

I suspect vaping is a lot less lethal.
Even if it were so,it pales into insignificance compared with what the target will do to the colony

 

[OldFarm]

Varroa levels had been monitored continuously since August and were OK. All hives have OMFs with varroa boards in during colder weather. The hives are in sheltered place well away from houses. The temperature, like everywhere else, was below freezing all day for 10 days from 8th Dec, no snow. Vaped with electrical heater below the OMFs. Dead bees mostly on the floors, dry, no sign of rot. Some bees died with their heads down in the cells. Entrances were all clear. One hive had bad attack of wax moth that had eaten the tops of 2 frames but all grubs had also died in the cold.

I would have taken the varroa boards out. The one time I left one in on a poly hive there was water in the hive, can't remember the details, but it was enough to make mental note not to do that again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To be honest I strongly suspect vaping is a lot more lethal than people acknowledge.

and have you any evidence at all to prove that?

let's look at the facts:
ineffective/non existent varroa treatment at the end of season
what treatment there was was way too late
bees with heads in cells
perforated/chewed open brood cappings on the remaining piece of brood
A few dead bees just dotted on the frames
All points towards
isolation starvation and inability to keep warm due to a severely dwindling colony brought on by varroosis
just sheer coincidence that you discovered the deadout just after vaping.

 

[Beesnaturally]

I don't treat against varroa at all. Instead I breed for self-sufficient and hardy bees. Around 20 nucs (that is, all of them), some quite small, were flying in my sunless valley yesterday. This valley has a large cold-air catchment area and is generally around 2-3 degrees colder than the surrounding area. So my thought is perhaps you need to locate some hardier bees.

Of course there is plenty of time yet for me to discover I need to eat my words.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I’m looking forward to seeing what the swarm off the potting shed roof do this year ( last year they gave me three supers of honey)
Moved to the apiary and vaped from the top. Tiny tiny black bees.

 

[blackcloud]

. So my thought is perhaps you need to locate some hardier bees.

Or a weaker strain of mites!
Either way Santa wont be helping out just yet -its easier said than done.
Many of us are passionate about our beekeeping but simply unable to splash out time or money in that pursuit and have facilitate the pastime with feral stock.
Which generally dont play by the ideals that get bandied about so a harsh treatment regime is a damn good alternative.
I lost my very first colony in a virtually identical way to the OP and the education of the experience hit home and stuck fast.

 

[Wingy]

didn’t think the weather had been that harsh so far this year, ok a few days of solid frozen ground but all mine have been out this last couple of days. Even the 2 frame Langstroth Nuc that was made up from a late mini mating Nuc. I’ve not treated for varroa now for 2 seasons as working with VSH and monitoring their behaviour. All hives are wood, some Langstroth some National, some single brood some brood & half, all have 50mm insulation built into the roof and OMF on stands to allow good ventilation. Nucs are a mixture of polly and 18mm ply again with OMF & 50mm insulation in the roof. All were left with enough stores and weights are being monitored by hefting. So far all looks good here so fingers crossed all will still be present come spring

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

Well I’m looking forward to seeing what the swarm off the potting shed roof do this year ( last year they gave me three supers of honey)
Moved to the apiary and vaped from the top. Tiny tiny black bees.

They sound fun. Are they unmanaged in the shed?