Here's a thought regarding swarm prevention

[ShinySideUp]

Sitting inside today, keeping out of the rain, I took to musing about swarms and a question came to me about a certain scenario.

If in the spring I put a nadir on with a queen excluder above it, then the brood box on top of that, what would happen at swarming time? The queen can't get out nor could any of the others that developed. Would the colony fail (don't see why it should), would the new queens hatch and have an awful fight to the death or would the workers, seeing the queen didn't leave with a swarm tear down the queen cells?

Not going to do it, I was just wondering.

 

[madasafish]

Sitting inside today, keeping out of the rain, I took to musing about swarms and a question came to me about a certain scenario.

If in the spring I put a nadir on with a queen excluder above it, then the brood box on top of that, what would happen at swarming time? The queen can't get out nor could any of the others that developed. Would the colony fail (don't see why it should), would the new queens hatch and have an awful fight to the death or would the workers, seeing the queen didn't leave with a swarm tear down the queen cells?

Not going to do it, I was just wondering.

The QE would be blocked by dead drones.

 

[MartinL]

Or, the virgins will pass through your excluder & half the colony will follow!

 

[Softley]

A few things come to mind...

What would the bees do in the lower box if the queen can't use it?

Virgin queens can get through excluder, as can mated queens when slimmed down ready to swarm.

How do drones get out? The excluder would become clogged with dead drones.

It could be the old queen fights with emerging virgins and dies. What if you then have problems with mating virgins? You'd be queenless.

 

[Softley]

MartinL and madasafish beat me to it

 

[tudorcd]

A few things come to mind...

Virgin queens can get through excluder, as can mated queens when slimmed down ready to swarm.

Do you have any support for this statement ?
My understanding is that the size of the thorax prevents queens passing through the QE, and that includes virgins. Not the size of the abdomen.
Thanks.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Ah, I forgot about the drones.

Again, just in case someone gets the wrong end of the stick, this is just a thought experiment, not something I'm going to do.

 

[For want of a better word]

Ah, I forgot about the drones.

Again, just in case someone gets the wrong end of the stick, this is just a thought experiment, not something I'm going to do.

Don't worry.... everyone does!!

Bees swarm...... eventually!!

Yeghes da

 

[beeno]

Do you have any support for this statement ?
My understanding is that the size of the thorax prevents queens passing through the QE, and that includes virgins. Not the size of the abdomen.
Thanks.

 

[Softley]

Do you have any support for this statement ?
My understanding is that the size of the thorax prevents queens passing through the QE, and that includes virgins. Not the size of the abdomen.
Thanks.

Yes. On inspecting a colony with a newly hatched virgin I found her running about on the crown board (above QE). I've also had one virgin go off and mate and then start laying above the excluder in a super.

Nothing wrong with the queen excluders. Framed wire and still in use.

 

[Finman]

Sitting inside today, keeping out of the rain, I took to musing about swarms and a question came to me about a certain scenario.

If in the spring I put a nadir on with a queen excluder above it, then the brood box on top of that, what would happen at swarming time? The queen can't get out nor could any of the others that developed. Would the colony fail (don't see why it should), would the new queens hatch and have an awful fight to the death or would the workers, seeing the queen didn't leave with a swarm tear down the queen cells?

Not going to do it, I was just wondering.

If that works, everybody would do that..

In swarming fever the Queen stops laying and bees stops working. How long you intended to keep your hive so? Your swarming period is long.

 

[Eyeman]

Yes. On inspecting a colony with a newly hatched virgin I found her running about on the crown board (above QE). I've also had one virgin go off and mate and then start laying above the excluder in a super.

Nothing wrong with the queen excluders. Framed wire and still in use.

I've had a couple of normal queens get up into the supers.
It's usually the beekeepers fault as it was in my case.
Don't need to blame the queen unless she is a scrub.

 

[Finman]

I've had a couple of normal queens get up into the supers.
It's usually the beekeepers fault as it was in my case.
Don't need to blame the queen unless she is a scrub.

I do not have excluder at all. ... Do not blame yourself.

 

[Softley]

I've had a couple of normal queens get up into the supers.
It's usually the beekeepers fault as it was in my case.
Don't need to blame the queen unless she is a scrub.

I didn't say I had 'normal' queens get into the supers. They were both from emergency cells and smaller than normal. My point is that virgins and smaller queens will sometimes pass through a QE.

This is digressing from the original question.