Help, swarms and I'm out of equipment

[ShinySideUp]

Two of my hives (both have three supers on and room in brood box) are on the verge of swarming and I have absolutely nothing left in the way of nucs, spare hives, even spare brood frames (although I do have a couple of supers with foundation in). For now I have torn down the queen cells which may help but aside from that I really don't know what to do apart from letting them go and concentrate on preventing cast swarms.

PS, I am hopeless at spotting queens so can't even squish her.

 

[Murox]

Maybe you will need to temporarily give them a super to use in brood area ?
Are you on single or double brood? Are you sure there is enough empty comb in the brood box(s) for the queen to lay, is it congested with too many bees ? Are they moving honey OUT of the supers and taking it down below into the brood box? Is the queen (how old is she) producing enough pheromone ? Do they just need more super space ?

 

[ShinySideUp]

Maybe you will need to temporarily give them a super to use in brood area ?
Are you on single or double brood? Are you sure there is enough empty comb in the brood box(s) for the queen to lay, is it congested with too many bees ? Are they moving honey OUT of the supers and taking it down below into the brood box? Is the queen (how old is she) producing enough pheromone ? Do they just need more super space ?

I am running 14 x 12's and there seems to be quite enough room for laying. There is little in the way of stores in the brood box and there are three supers on each hive with plenty of room in the top one. I suspect the queens are only a year old and one of the hives has this years queen because they already swarmed once (I got them back and put them in another hive).

I've just had a thought while writing this. As I said there are three supers on, do you think it might help if I moved the least filled super (the top one obviously) to be the first one above the QE so giving the impression of a lot more room?

 

[eltalia]

(edit)I've just had a thought while writing this. As I said there are three supers on, do you think it might help if I moved the least filled super (the top one obviously) to be the first one above the QE so giving the impression of a lot more room?

Yes... that is an option.
However the root of the worry is in the BC, so a frame shuffle of outer
stores frames to that same super above - moving empty frames down
- is a more proactive move.
Then again you could simply fit a QR to the entrance and forget about
doing anything else.
Five minute job.
One retail example attached - 4.5mm high is the magic number for a
bespoke bar.

Bill

 

[Murox]

Can you take off any capped honey frames ?
I always like to add multiple supers at once, rather than adding one by one I think it helps inhibit swarming. They need a large amount of space to both store incoming nectar and whilst they ripen it, the extra space can forestall swarming during a nectar flow.

I would still look hard at the brood box, queen may need more space than you think, especially if there are loads of nurse bees covering the frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Taking down queen cells means the bees may well make replacements on older larvae. QC on 3 day larva is capped two days later and off they go well before your next inspection is due. Find a buddy, nuc the queen into a couple of supers with improvised floor and roof and order more kit

 

[madasafish]

Cardboard boxes work as a temporary measure...or dustbins

 

[Show me the honey]

Two of my hives (both have three supers on and room in brood box) are on the verge of swarming and I have absolutely nothing left in the way of nucs, spare hives, even spare brood frames (although I do have a couple of supers with foundation in). For now I have torn down the queen cells which may help but aside from that I really don't know what to do apart from letting them go and concentrate on preventing cast swarms.

PS, I am hopeless at spotting queens so can't even squish her.

I know it’s too late now but bbwears is in threemilestone closed till Monday now though

 

[Anduril]

LOL Eltalia, Little John (you quoted him) a few years ago informed us that your QR contraption (The panacea of all beekeeping manipulations according to you) does not work, also look at the history of the patents as to why it never caught on. However if you wish, please do a masterclass for us, as you have not explained how it works, especially when you give the information to beginners, willy-nilly. You have been asked once before and never responded.

 

[eltalia]

LOL Eltalia, Little John (you quoted him) a few years ago informed us that your QR contraption (The panacea of all beekeeping manipulations according to you) does not work, also look at the history of the patents as to why it never caught on. However if you wish, please do a masterclass for us, as you have not explained how it works, especially when you give the information to beginners, willy-nilly. You have been asked once before and never responded.

Comprehension problem screaming from those comments, maaaate.
/winx/

Lil John clued us - a whole bunch of seasoned well educated beekeepers - onto
the setout of Q U E E N CASTLES n0t QRs... in fact at best recollection I don't
believe their use was even mentioned. Check out the dates on the image
posted, it was a while back.
The style of QR we use is historical... dates back to my _practical_ learning days
and so passed on by my mentor, an East German (refugee) b'keep.
As you say the concept does not work then you'd be helping a whole bunch of
both experienced and newer operators in contacting the supplier/s of the
retail product I illustrate and tell them your view. I am sure they will recall the
product, immediately!
/tic/
As a set thing I am n0t in the habit of introducing a concept without laying out
"How this Works". So it is I can only presume that once again you have not
paid attention and so now rely on archive mining to figure it out - n0t my
problem, sollllllly.
I am reasonably certain even new to it on Day01 players own the concept
no Queen equals no Swarm, or own the smarts to quickly discover why this is
so... so tell us what you do not 'get' to enable one of the 2ndYear folk here to
explain such to you.
Toodle-oo

/rubs palms - dusted/

Bill

 

[Anduril]

Comprehension problem screaming from those comments, maaaate.
/winx/

Lil John clued us - a whole bunch of seasoned well educated beekeepers - onto
the setout of Q U E E N CASTLES n0t QRs... in fact at best recollection I don't
believe their use was even mentioned. Check out the dates on the image
posted, it was a while back.
The style of QR we use is historical... dates back to my _practical_ learning days
and so passed on by my mentor, an East German (refugee) b'keep.
As you say the concept does not work then you'd be helping a whole bunch of
both experienced and newer operators in contacting the supplier/s of the
retail product I illustrate and tell them your view. I am sure they will recall the
product, immediately!
/tic/
As a set thing I am n0t in the habit of introducing a concept without laying out
"How this Works". So it is I can only presume that once again you have not
paid attention and so now rely on archive mining to figure it out - n0t my
problem, sollllllly.
I am reasonably certain even new to it on Day01 players own the concept
no Queen equals no Swarm, or own the smarts to quickly discover why this is
so... so tell us what you do not 'get' to enable one of the 2ndYear folk here to
explain such to you.
Toodle-oo

/rubs palms - dusted/

Bill

You appear totally clueless, I'm talking about Little John and your QR, his experimentation with his version of it, I never mentioned queen castles, this is just a diversionary tactic. If you decide to research his information on the forum, it will be helpful.

 

[eltalia]

@....?
True, clueless on whatever it is has your head spinning.
Lil John ran tutes on queen castle setup, elsewhere, like not
in this forum. You'd have to ask him why that was and why he
never used QRs. I fail to see the relevancy of your yike.

/shrug/

Bill

 

[MartinL]

I fail to see the relevancy .


Bill

I don't suppose you do.

 

[eltalia]

I don't suppose you do.

Heh.. Apis husbandry I have down pat, know that topic inside out
and back to front. Devolving the Klutz 101...?.. a work in progress,
and like n0t particularly interested.
Sooo... to leech the best from moi...?... talk bees - leave the
glass balls at the door, like. Fair enuff?

Bill

 

[beeno]

Two of my hives (both have three supers on and room in brood box) are on the verge of swarming and I have absolutely nothing left in the way of nucs, spare hives, even spare brood frames (although I do have a couple of supers with foundation in). For now I have torn down the queen cells which may help but aside from that I really don't know what to do apart from letting them go and concentrate on preventing cast swarms.

PS, I am hopeless at spotting queens so can't even squish her.

Spotting queens is something you have to learn to do as a beek. Everyone is rubbish at it to start off, but practice makes perfect. Two impending swarms should give you enough motivation to get to it. Do remember that there is a high risk of the bees creating emergency queen cells when you tear down QC. They will go on the 5th day if they do. As you have a laying queen in the hives they will use a one day old larva to create an emergency cell 4 + 5 = 9 days capped. Any box will do if they swarm. Mine was a waste paper box one year with top bars covered with a sheet of plastic. When they had drawn 5 good frames of worker brood they were deserving of a proper hive box.
Good luck.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Spotting queens is something you have to learn to do as a beek. Everyone is rubbish at it to start off, but practice makes perfect. Two impending swarms should give you enough motivation to get to it. Do remember that there is a high risk of the bees creating emergency queen cells when you tear down QC. They will go on the 5th day if they do. As you have a laying queen in the hives they will use a one day old larva to create an emergency cell 4 + 5 = 9 days capped. Any box will do if they swarm. Mine was a waste paper box one year with top bars covered with a sheet of plastic. When they had drawn 5 good frames of worker brood they were deserving of a proper hive box.
Good luck.

I did spot my first queen yesterday (not in the offending hives I'm afraid), wasn't even looking and there she was. Marked her now but after releasing her she disappeared sharpish-like. They can move pretty fast when they want to.

 

[Murox]

Yep. Its a lot easier when they are marked.

 

[thedozzer]

Yep. Its a lot easier when they are marked.

What Murox said, we started with an unmarked queen last year and as long as there was eggs we were all good, but now when have had to do splits and move frames of brood around its become obvious a marked queen is helpful.

And don't feel to bad about not being able to spot the queen, one of our 2 hives is marked and we found and marked a Q in swarm that turned up the other day, but the other hive we spent nearly 30mins going through today and we still cant spot her, my other half is a designer and she is very detail orientated and can normally spot them easily, but this one is Olympic hide and seek standard. and this is the 3rd week we have tried!!

 

[beeno]

What Murox said, we started with an unmarked queen last year and as long as there was eggs we were all good, but now when have had to do splits and move frames of brood around its become obvious a marked queen is helpful.

And don't feel to bad about not being able to spot the queen, one of our 2 hives is marked and we found and marked a Q in swarm that turned up the other day, but the other hive we spent nearly 30mins going through today and we still cant spot her, my other half is a designer and she is very detail orientated and can normally spot them easily, but this one is Olympic hide and seek standard. and this is the 3rd week we have tried!!

Yep, you keep going so that she is marked when you need to find her! I have been in the position when unmarked I needed to find her... and there she was. The force has been with me so far ...

 

[ShinySideUp]

Well after tearing down the queen cells the other day I moved the mostly empty super from the top of the stack of three and put it directly above the brood box. Today I did an inspection and found only one half-built QC so the apparent increase in space may have done the trick to prevent a swarm. I also managed to cobble together an empty super by cleaning up some old frames and doing a few repairs and put that immediately above the brood box and I hope that will finally put their swarm tendencies to rest. I have to admit that this colony, in my limited experience, was in the most populated hive I have ever seen. If a standard summer hive reportedly has sixty thousand bees in it then this one must have eighty thousand -- huge numbers and very prolific considering the weather in June. I went through the hive twice looking for the queen but to no avail (and picked up three stings in the process).

I'll inspect in five days and see if they've really decided to stay.