Help needed in West Sussex

[stickfish]

Just found my bees have not overwintered, again.
They were flying 2 weeks ago.
Really disappointed and on the verge of giving up. Finding this a very expensive hobby and very frustrating. I think I am doing the right things.

It's a shame as I have a acre of garden with a large pond on the edge of farmland, plenty of space for my bees (others could site here too).

I need a mentor with help and advice, you could have some hives here too.

On the outskirts of Steyning, West Sussex.

HELP!

 

[Polyanwood]

Sorry the bees have died.

Beekeeping is hard to learn from books, so I think it is a good idea looking for a mentor. Shame I am not nearer. I would love somewhere like that to put my bees. It is so hard to find somewhere suitable to put them.

 

[Tonych224]

Did you treat / check for Nosema as that could be a contributing factor.

Are you a member of your local BKA? Try West Sussex BKA, they have 4 branches, Worthing branch probably your nearest... I'm sure they would buddy you up with someone, also you would get BDI as a member.

 

[itma]

Welome to the forum.

Post questions on the main forum. There are no stupid questions, but quite often there are silly answers!

National? Are you running brood and a half?

Varroa treatment - What have you been using, and what drops did you record before and after treatment?

 

[stickfish]

I was a member of Wisborough Green Division but due to my other commitments, was unable to make meetings etc.

I treated with Apiguard when advised by the local bee supplier and thought the colony had survived a couple of weeks ago.

The bees in the hive look pretty good to me (apart from being dead), even look like some were hatching but lots were stuffed in the cells (heads inwards) and there are no stores. Even though I had fondant available, looks like they starved.

Having someone mentoring and keeping a few hives here is probably the only way I can continue.

Hope someone can help.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Did you treat / check for Nosema as that could be a contributing factor.

National? Are you running brood and a half?

Varroa treatment - What have you been using, and what drops did you record before and after treatment?

I think I am doing the right things.

Hope someone can help.

I am sure you will get some good advice on here, but more information is needed, and there will be questions that need answers.

 

[busybee53]

You say you think your bees starved even though you had fondant available. By available do you mean you put it in the hive, or do you mean you had it ready but didn't get round to putting it on? If you put the fondant in the hive did you put it where the bees could reach it? If it was on top of the frames where the bees were clustered they should have been able to use it. If it was further away from them, say above the crown board it may have been too cold for them to actually get to the food. (But if it was upside down over the hold in the crown board and the hole was above the brood nest it should have been ok)

Sorry for all the 'ifs'

 

[itma]

...
I treated with Apiguard when advised by the local bee supplier ...

The bees in the hive look pretty good to me (apart from being dead), even look like some were hatching but lots were stuffed in the cells (heads inwards) and there are no stores. Even though I had fondant available, looks like they starved.
...

Rather than "meetings" *the* thing that a local association should provide newbees with is *contacts*.
And I'd emphasise the plural.
Ask one beek and you'll be told his way. Ask enough and (if you can avoid confusion) you'll be able to discern a middle way among all the different shades of opinion. The forum is good for that too.

It is hard to get enough stores for winter into a single-brood national. It needs to be stuffed full. "Fondant available" isn't precise enough (I can't see from here!) Was it on the hive? Was it above a hole in the crownboard? Had it gone hard and dry? How long had it been on?

You can't blindly trust varroa treatments to work. Apiguard depends on having enough warmth to vaporise the Thymol. So I advocate checking the success of any treatment, by seeing how much problem remains. That would indicate your future course of action.

But it does sound like starvation ...

 

[oliver90owner]

Presumably you have kept bees over at least 4 winters? Have they died every year?

If you have used the forum much since joining, you should be aware that advice needs information on which to base any sensible suggestions.

Hive configuration is a good start along with treatments, feeding regime and any other relevant information.

Yes, this winter has been bad after a lousy summer last year. I will likely lose more colonies this winter, than the previous 6 or 7 years all put together.

But while I am aware why mine have had a difficult time, are you with yours?

Lets start with the hive - timber? OMF? Brood only? Stores? Strength of colony? Insulation? Ventilation? All factors, which while possibly unimportant in an average year, have been paramount for survival this last winter.

Infections, varroa, treatments and disturbance in the winter could all be factors, as could the positioning of the hives.

While beekeeping is not rocket science, the beekeeper does need to think to make the right decisions for the optimum welfare of the colonies. A thin timber hive is not necessarily the best winter retreat for the bees if a crop of honey is taken regardless of the colony, weather, forage, etc. It usually needs a deal of input from the beekeeper to ensure next year's crop is forthcoming - even if it is all used by the bees.

There is a wealth of useful information and help on this forum - and some less so. After 4 winters you should not need a mentor - they are for new beeks just starting - but you do need to decide how best to over-winter your bees and how to prepare them for the worst possible scenario (like this last year!).


I'm afraid that this winter will sort out the less 'devoted' beekeepers. For instance, if I lost all my bees I would not give up just because of that.

RAB

 

[dpearce4]

Stickfish, Im just the other side of the downs from you, and keep bees on the downs close to Steyning. I would be willing to help you out if you wanted.

I am also a member of the Worthing BKA and if your interested we have our last winter meeting at Ferring village hall on the 11th April @ 7.30 we are doing some equipment building for this season if you would like to come along and meet us.

I am still reasonably new this is my 3rd season but have learnt masses as my mentor has been the chairman of Worthing BKA.

 

[stickfish]

Its a Jumbo Brood National.

Fondant on the crown board (not over the hole though) and to the side of the brood nest, possibly too far for them in this really cold weather.

I have had some successful over winterings but with a max of 2 colonies (only 1 last year) losing one is a big percentage each time.

This colony was a new Nuc last year, did the Apiguard treatment when advised by the supplier and thought the overwintering was all going ok just a couple of weeks ago when the bees were flying on a warm (ish) sunny day. I didn't take any honey from them last year, just hoping to get them through the winter.

I don't want to give in, I just feel I need more than 1 colony to increase my chances of keeping the bees through the winter.

It's just at £225 for another Nuc (if I can get one), getting more than one is out of my budget.

Just hoping having another beekeeper here with more experience and knowledge, any further investment can be more successful.

 

[dpearce4]

Have you lost both or just one? if just one then you can expand the other this year mid may. then no cost.

 

[stickfish]

That's the problem, I only had the one last year.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Why not drop into chat, if it's open.

 

[dpearce4]

its open now beejoyful

 

[oliver90owner]

(not over the hole though)

Were you expecting the bees to go into an open roof space to collect very cold fondant?

Was this colony on an OMF by any chance?

I take it from that, there was no insulation above the crownboard and a gaping hole in the crownboard?

How did the supplier of the apiguard know when was an appropriate time for the treatment?

When was the nuc colony installed and how?

Was the colony really strong enough for a full hive?

Were they checked for nosema last autumn?

How do you know the apigusrd treatment was effective?

All very basic questions or observations that every beekeeper should be able to answer, or justify their actions.

 

[itma]

... I just feel I need more than 1 colony to increase my chances of keeping the bees through the winter.

It's just at £225 for another Nuc (if I can get one), getting more than one is out of my budget.

Just hoping having another beekeeper here with more experience and knowledge, any further investment can be more successful.

Get on the Association swarm list ASAP.
If you and the queen don't get on, you can get another queen cheaply in mid-summer. But you could also hope that they would soon supercede her (a mature queen would head a prime swarm), and that her daughter might be nicer.
Massively cheaper than buying a nuc.

But demand for swarms will likely exceed supply this year - so get on the list pronto. And offer to help the collector - anything to get higher up the list!

Two colonies does provide some insurance against beekeeper errors, but my suggestion would be that, this year - instead of aiming for a honey crop - you try and build one colony into two before the winter.
And then, with improved over-wintering preparation advice (from here and elsewhere), you should start next year with two strong colonies and a whole lot more knowledge and confidence.
Meanwhile there may be details to be attended to, assumptions to be questioned, and a mentor should indeed be a real help.

 

[stickfish]

I have obviously made some stupid mistakes, I did think that fondant in the roof space above the crown board was near enough. I did have a OMF. No insulation in the roof space. The colony looked healthy to me in the autumn, no obvious signs of disease or infestation so I used Apiguard as a precaution.
I broke my ankle in late Jan so have struggled to keep an eye on things for quite a few weeks.
Seeing lots of bees flying to and from the hive a just couple of weeks ago, I thought they had overwintered ok. It's only since this late cold snap they have died.
Just hoping someone will be willing to help and advise me on site if I can get a new colony going.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Stickfish, Im just the other side of the downs from you, and keep bees on the downs close to Steyning. I would be willing to help you out if you wanted.

I am also a member of the Worthing BKA and if your interested we have our last winter meeting at Ferring village hall on the 11th April @ 7.30 we are doing some equipment building for this season if you would like to come along and meet us.

I am still reasonably new this is my 3rd season but have learnt masses as my mentor has been the chairman of Worthing BKA.

Why not drop into chat, if it's open.

Just hoping someone will be willing to help and advise me on site if I can get a new colony going.

Using forum chat was a serious suggestion. It's free of charge and is a quick way of getting to know people over a virtual pint or a virtual tea/coffee, as well as being a quick way of getting answers. Log in via the link near the top of the forum webpage.

There's usually somebody in there in the evenings, often quite late, and there are 'regulars' who include dpearce4 - who's offered to help.

I think there are software incompatibility issues if you use an Ipad.

 

[itma]

Stickfish, Im just the other side of the downs from you, and keep bees on the downs close to Steyning. I would be willing to help you out if you wanted.

I am also a member of the Worthing BKA and if your interested we have our last winter meeting at Ferring village hall on the 11th April @ 7.30 we are doing some equipment building for this season if you would like to come along and meet us.

I am still reasonably new this is my 3rd season but have learnt masses as my mentor has been the chairman of Worthing BKA.

...
Just hoping someone will be willing to help and advise me on site if I can get a new colony going.

Sorted?


Rather than buying the nuc, spend some of your saving (from having a swarm) on buying a see-through crownboard.
Its not an observation hive, but its very close, for a fraction of the cost.
Being able to see what's happening, without the bother (to you and the bees) of opening up properly, is extremely valuable.