Help, advice please. Swarm not drawing comb advice

[RosieMc]

I'm stressed!!! I thought beekeeping was supposed to be relaxing.

After a week of rain we had one warm day - and I paid for it. Mid afternoon Sunday, one of my hives swarmed onto a nearby tree. I put a spare hive underneath the bough and finally managed to shake the bees into the brood box.

Imagine my despair when I went to check the parent hive that swarmed to discover that the hive right next to it ALSO began to swarm!!! Panic! Not only that, the second hive landed on the same bough - right above the swarm collecting hive. How on earth any individual bee knew who was who I have no idea.

I then put another spare hive next to the first swarm hive and shook them off too. All the bees stayed in their respective hives. When all was calm I transferred both hives to a new spot.

Neither of the parent hives were brimming over with bees and there was lots of room for laying.

Next day the Bee Inspector came - thankfully, but could not find either of the queens in the two swarms.

Now the question - I did not feed either of the swarms on first day. Next day I fed them 1 - 1 sugar syrup, but now it is the 3rd day after swarming and they are not taking any of the sugar syrup. As two hives swarmed I do not have any spare brood combs and little drawn comb to spare.

Is the 1 - 1 syrup correct? I do not want them to swarm again. They have already swarmed at least once this year. ~Thank you oh knowledgable ones.

 

[madasafish]

Sugar syrup has no smell. Sprinkle a little around the entrance to the feeder...and on the top of the bars... that should get them started to take it,,

(I had the same problem)

 

[the naked beekeeper]

What feeder are you using?

 

[bump3r67]

Tell me about the relaxation bit. I started this year with a small colony to avoid a swarm but you can guess what happened.

Mine took a day to find the feed and then started taking it down with no problems.

Paul

 

[RosieMc]

What feeder are you using?

4 pint rapid feeder on each. I thought about perhaps putting some pollen substitute in?

 

[RosieMc]

Sugar syrup has no smell. Sprinkle a little around the entrance to the feeder...and on the top of the bars... that should get them started to take it,,

(I had the same problem)

Thanks, I did that yesterday, and today - they are not interested. They are bringing in a small amount of pollen, but not enough to build comb let alone any stores. They must have filled their honey stomachs to bursting as the supers they left behind feel pretty light now.

I have put the rapid feeder directly over the frames where the bees are.

 

[tonybloke]

try splashing some of the syrup down the sides hole in the centre of the feeder, this'll help them find it.

 

[Arfermo]

Thanks, I did that yesterday, and today - they are not interested. They are bringing in a small amount of pollen, but not enough to build comb let alone any stores. They must have filled their honey stomachs to bursting as the supers they left behind feel pretty light now.

I have put the rapid feeder directly over the frames where the bees are.

Pollen isn't used for comb building. It is protein for the larvae. There are multiple ways of stopping swarms as well as clipping the queens wings so she can't fly off with all her pals. Thus when she jumps she lands on the ground. That is the time either to squish her and rely on the flyers to go back where they came from as they have nowhere else to go. Alternatively, remove the QCs and stick queenie back. Your choice. Swarming is an indication Q is past her sell by date.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Swarming is an indication Q is past her sell by date.


No that is not always the case,there can be other reasons why they swarm,which has nothing to do with the queen being past her best,or indeed anything wrong with her at all.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Swarming is an indication Q is past her sell by date.

I have to fundamentally disagree.

Swarming is the bees reproductive impulse.

It can be triggered by one or various factors, but poor queen performance is not one of them.

Supercedure and occasionally supercedure swarms are the indication of a queen not performing up to scratch.

Indeed if bees are swarming because they've outgrown their abode..then that is an indication of an altogether prolific layer.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've had one queen go twice this year and both times she has laid up a 14 x 12 in no time. When I caught the colony making preparations to go a third time I replaced her.

 

[Teemore]

You may have supplied the answer yourself when you say that the bee Inspector couldn't find the Queen in either swarm.

If there is no Queen present, the colony is less likely to draw comb. I'd go as far as saying they will not draw comb if there is no queen present but someone will likely be along to comment that they have observed otherwise!!
Are you in a position to drop in a test frame of eggs to either or both these new colonies?

 

[RosieMc]

Thank you for all your advices - they give me good knowledge for next year - and hopefully not for this year).

Its amazing what some cold wet nights can do - after having trickled down some sugar syrup (1-1) on the top of the frames and down the sides, the bees have finally started to takes the syrup and build comb today - phew. At least it means that they are calling their new site and hive 'home'. I have not checked any of the four hives for eggs or lavea. I believe the recommendations are to leave them a week so as not to spook them.

Both of these colonies have already swarmed this year. I think the correct phrase of this latest swarm is the 'first cast'?

The bee inspector found the newly hatched virgin queens in both of the original hives. Evidenced by small queens and opened queens cells. It was impossible to find the 'old' queen in either of the swarm hives due to the thick layer of bees on the new foundations.

I am not in a position to try a test frame from any of my hives. Before the swarms the queens stopped laying which I now know could be a sign of preparation to swarm. I originally thought that the queens had stopped laying because the flow of pollen/nectar coming in was ending. Not so. As I gain experience I know now that the foraging year for balsam and meadow sweet, which is still in abundance here, is still available.

The Bee Inspector said that (at least in our area) he has never known so many swarms in one season before. I am seriously considering re-queening next year to a strain that does not have such a tendancy to swarm.

 

[richardbees]

Rosie

I just read your last post before commenting that "it's hard to find the Q in a hived swarm" ! You can assume there is a Q in each swarmed colony.

Seems like you're now ok?

Post again next week if there's no activity

richard

 

[oliver90owner]

I think the correct phrase of this latest swarm is the 'first cast'?

If you think you have an old queen in the swarm, it is a 'prime', if a virgin then it will be a cast (provided the waters are not muddied with clipped queens).

RAB