Has the bubble burst?

[psafloyd]

Grumpy old men EVERYWHERE I go these days !!! My 35 year old son is beginning to describe himself as Grumpy And Middle Aged ... they are known as Gammas in his circle !!

That could be misconstrued in certain northerly parts...

 

[pargyle]

That could be misconstrued in certain northerly parts...

Ahhh - Somewhere who speaks a little Glasgie then ? Not quite Gamma but close !

 

[Easy Beesy]

I agree ... it's not about the box that they are kept in ... more about the 'management' system ... I know a number of beekeepers who utilise National hives who would describe themselves as 'more natural' in their approach to hive management. If you don't like the terminology then suggest an acceptable alternative that is not going to offend .... I can change !

At last, my sentiments exactly! Mine are in a box and I manage them as naturally as I can. I get so annoyed at people assuming how I treat my bees just because of the TYPE of box. Remember that icing sugar is as much as 'chemical' as oxalic acid is. I listen to all the arguments, both sides, then make an informed decision that's best for ME & MY BEES.

 

[sugarbush]

Here in the USA the bubble certainly hasn't burst. Prices go up and up every year and demand for bees is crazy ridiculous. We still have a long ways to go before we make it to what you guys pay for bees and equipment.

Association membership here isn't an indication of anything. Many here are members of an association for a year or two and then let it lapse.

I wonder how much of an impact hive densities are having on beekeeping success there? In the USA we are at max capacity in many areas and when a number of hives exceed capacity we have noticeable die offs.

One of my yards has two other keepers within about a mile of it. We have figured that that area can sustain 20 hives between the three of us before we all start loosing hives.

 

[theeggman]

It appears that the bubble hasn't burst.
I've just spent half a day in the bee tent at Devon County Show and the footfall was incredible. Our stand was aimed at children and got a lot of attention from the kids and adults alike.
As part of the D.B.K.A. event there was a live hive outside of the tent behind netting and 2 or 3 times a day (weather permitting) the hive was opened to allow Joe public to see inside a real hive from a safe distance. Also any volunteers over 7 yrs. old could don a beesuit and get up close with the bees inside the netting, it really pulled in the crowds.

Tim

 

[PBee]

..........We have figured that that area can sustain 20 hives between the three of us before we all start loosing hives.

GPS might help.

 

[clv101]

One of my yards has two other keepers within about a mile of it. We have figured that that area can sustain 20 hives between the three of us before we all start loosing hives.

20 seems relatively low to me, but I guess is it totally dependent on the available forage in the area. What is the landscape like, what is growing in the area?

 

[Iceni]

Didn't put me off, made me more determined to keep bees as they need all the help they can get. Also, always been interested in lepidoptera so wildlife, conservation and botany have always been a huge part of my life. Although I am one of those people who is determined but do things myself and not really into joining clubs and going on courses...

My thoughts entirely. I haven't kept bees as I haven't been able to afford the kit. But have become so concerned about the obvious lack of honey bees over the past few years, I feel I must do something.

What I'd like is an experienced bee keeper to park their hives in my orchard which adjoins a small wild flower meadow which flowers for most of the season, so I'd learn by observation. Access to the hive(s) would be completely unrestricted and is about 70 yards from the house (we have a long garden) of about 2 acres. We run a completely organic garden and use no sprays or pesticides whatsoever… however, the farmers around us have their sprayers going every few weeks — fortunately we have high hedges with plenty of shelter from the sprays.

We live in West Suffolk CB8 area so if there are any beeks around my area get in touch.

 

[davnig]

My thoughts entirely. I haven't kept bees as I haven't been able to afford the kit. But have become so concerned about the obvious lack of honey bees over the past few years, I feel I must do something.

What I'd like is an experienced bee keeper to park their hives in my orchard which adjoins a small wild flower meadow which flowers for most of the season, so I'd learn by observation. Access to the hive(s) would be completely unrestricted and is about 70 yards from the house (we have a long garden) of about 2 acres. We run a completely organic garden and use no sprays or pesticides whatsoever… however, the farmers around us have their sprayers going every few weeks — fortunately we have high hedges with plenty of shelter from the sprays.

We live in West Suffolk CB8 area so if there are any beeks around my area get in touch.

Get in touch with your local associations, you'll get a wider audience of possible beekeepers to put some hives there.

Unfortunately the high hedges won't stop them foraging on the sprayed plants

good luck

 

[Stiffy]

Saw a short clip on local news, looked very good and well presented
S

 

[sugarbush]

GPS might help.

20 seems relatively low to me, but I guess is it totally dependent on the available forage in the area. What is the landscape like, what is growing in the area?

43.808748 -72.545719

The area is predominantly wooded. The river bottom experienced a 100 year flood two years ago and wiped out many of the locust and basswood that was along the river. The fields are all timothy and really offer nothing forage wise. Predominant flows for the area are dandelion and maples early spring, wild raspberries early summer, goldenrod and ragweed in the fall.

 

[PBee]

The hive density/forage abundance ratio will affect yield but shouldn't cause increased mortality particularly at the numbers you quote. This UK study gives an indication of the forage area which may be used and other studies have recorded even greater distances as far as I know - although the law of diminishing returns applies.

Only 10% of the bees foraged within 0·5 km of the hive whereas 50% went more than 6 km, 25% more than 7·5 km and 10% more than 9·5 km from the hive.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2435.2000.00443.x/full

 

[Skyhook]

I wonder how much of an impact hive densities are having on beekeeping success there? In the USA we are at max capacity in many areas and when a number of hives exceed capacity we have noticeable die offs.

One of my yards has two other keepers within about a mile of it. We have figured that that area can sustain 20 hives between the three of us before we all start loosing hives.

That really suggests there is something different going on over there, and I think may be the single most significant thing said on this thread at least. It is now being said that London is reaching capacity, but the result of that is reduced honey crops, not colony failure.

What do you mean by die offs? Are you talking starvation, die-outs for recognized reasons eg foul brood, or unexplained die offs?


.

 

[Chris Luck]

I agree with Skyhook, there is some other issue or the bees are where bees wouldn't normally live.

Here it isn't unusual to find 100 or more colonies within "a mile" of each other with no problems.

Chris

 

[sugarbush]

What do you mean by die offs? Are you talking starvation, die-outs for recognized reasons eg foul brood, or unexplained die offs?

By die offs I mean severe robbing occurs and hives dwindle as a result to a point of not being able to survive the winters.

100 hives per square mile is definitely not sustainable in many areas in the US. Rule of thumb is 2 miles in any direction between yards and 20-30 hives would max an area out. I wonder what our differences as far as competitive pollinators go? The commercial operations in other areas will place 50-60 hive per location, but they are feeding all year around.

It is something to consider: Multiple people here have stated that they have had several "bad years" in a discussion about a boom in beekeeping activity . You may be exceeding carrying capacity and your bad years are really too many hive competing for the same resources.

 

[sugarbush]

I agree with Skyhook, there is some other issue or the bees are where bees wouldn't normally live.
Chris

Well that is a given... this is North America after all. The first honey bees arrived here in the early 1700s.

 

[Chris Luck]

What I mean is that they would not be able to sustain themselves without human intervention which is how many honey bees are kept in some parts of the planet.

Indeed there are parts of France and the UK where honey bees can't live without human assistance.

Chris

 

[Iceni]

Get in touch with your local associations, you'll get a wider audience of possible beekeepers to put some hives there.

Unfortunately the high hedges won't stop them foraging on the sprayed plants

good luck

OK. That is what I'll do. Do I just google Suffolk bee keepers and take it from there?

I can see the farmer's going to spray, he has to drive past the track beside my house so I guess I just rush down there with a damp sheet and cover the hive with it so they can't forage (?). I've looked up Farmers Weekly and think it's fungicide spraying atm. A week or two ago, it was fertiliser — you can tell which as it's either a mist or a trickle for the latter. Is fungicide bad for bees?

Edit: What a marvellous forum this is! Just got a pm and an apiarist is coming this afternoon to inspect the territory and may keep his hive(s) here. Apparently, he passes nearby every day on his way to work. So he'll get honey and we'll get fruit. Brilliant!!!

 

[Chris Luck]

Is fungicide bad for bees?

Well it can't be good for them, it's more a case with all these products as to which are least harmful. In the scheme of things it isn't likely that you'll notice any difference to your bees, fungicides are sprayed here about every other day at the moment.

Chris

 

[Iceni]

Well it can't be good for them, it's more a case with all these products as to which are least harmful. In the scheme of things it isn't likely that you'll notice any difference to your bees, fungicides are sprayed here about every other day at the moment.

Chris

As I thought. It all seems a bit pointless as last year the farmer did all the same things and lost all of his wheat crop to weeks of continuous rain and some really nasty disease, which made it unfit even for animal feed.

We really haven't got the right climate for purely arable farming are we're too maritime and should return to mixed (livestock, orchard fruits, barley, oats and hay). Places like N. America, Canada or Ukraine do far better and have the space.