Has hive become a feeding station

[Tony19]

I collected a swarm 10 days ago but due to inexperience may have missed the queen. I added a rapid feeder after 3 days and removed the Qex from the bottom of the brood box and left them until today. There are quite a lot of bees taking syrup but look less than originally hived. There is no evidence of drawn comb and I'm starting out so only have foundation available. Is it possible that I don't have the beginnings of a colony and am now just providing a feeding station for any foraging bees? Thanks for you help.

 

[pargyle]

I collected a swarm 10 days ago but due to inexperience may have missed the queen. I added a rapid feeder after 3 days and removed the Qex from the bottom of the brood box and left them until today. There are quite a lot of bees taking syrup but look less than originally hived. There is no evidence of drawn comb and I'm starting out so only have foundation available. Is it possible that I don't have the beginnings of a colony and am now just providing a feeding station for any foraging bees? Thanks for you help.

Look for eggs and larvae ... first thing you need to know is if you have a queen in there - if there's no queen it's a doomed colony as they have no way to make one so you either need a frame with eggs on it from somewhere or you are into buying a queen or begging an unwanted queen from someone.

A swarm should have started drawing some comb by 10 days (and if they haven't that begs a question as to why) - I've seen a swarm build out a frame of comb in less than 24 hours and a swarm queen is usually eager to get on and lay. Even a small patch of comb and she will be laying in it if she's there.

It should not become a feeding station as long as there are enough bees to defend it ...

 

[Quis Custodiet]

It is also possible that you got a cast and not the top swarm. In which case the queen will need to mate, but with the decent weather the first eggs may appear shortly. Foundation is fine for casts and swarms, in nature they would not have even that to start a new colony.

 

[pargyle]

It is also possible that you got a cast and not the top swarm. In which case the queen will need to mate, but with the decent weather the first eggs may appear shortly. Foundation is fine for casts and swarms, in nature they would not have even that to start a new colony.

Good point...

If it's a small caste swarm you might want to reduce the hive entrance down so there's less to defend and perhaps dummy the hive down to a few frames until they start to expand. Smaller space means less space to heat and they need heat to draw comb ~ so that might be part of your problem ... or, if you have a nuc box put them in that until they get going.

 

[Tony19]

Thanks for the replies, All apart from about a dozen bees are in the feeder slot no action at all on the foundation. So removed the feeder on the basis they have enough forage to start building as they would in the wild. If everything's ok within the hive they should sort things out themselves. If it has become a feeding station the number of bees in and around the hive should dwindle. Onwards and upwards, each day increases the learning curve!!

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for the replies, All apart from about a dozen bees are in the feeder slot no action at all on the foundation. So removed the feeder on the basis they have enough forage to start building as they would in the wild. If everything's ok within the hive they should sort things out themselves. If it has become a feeding station the number of bees in and around the hive should dwindle. Onwards and upwards, each day increases the learning curve!!

Sorry - forgive me - it's a stupid question .. are you sure you have collected honey bees ?

After this length of time with a feeder on and 1:1 syrup they should have drawn lots of comb out on your foundation.

How many bees were there in this swarm you collected and where were they located ?

 

[Tony19]

Sorry - forgive me - it's a stupid question .. are you sure you have collected honey bees ?

After this length of time with a feeder on and 1:1 syrup they should have drawn lots of comb out on your foundation.

How many bees were there in this swarm you collected and where were they located ?

Hi, yes they definitely were honey bees, but being my first swarm capturing it didn't exactly go as described in all the books! A sprung branch released and whiplashed through the swarm. The swarm was small anyway and on reflection I may have missed the queen. So I don't think I even had a viable starter colony. I think that with a feeder on the hive then just attracted any passing bee for a free feed! Anyway lessons learned with more confidence to tackle any future swarms. The original small swarm was in a garden hedge of a lady in the next village. One final thought would the workers build comb for an unmated queen?

 

[pargyle]

Hi, yes they definitely were honey bees, but being my first swarm capturing it didn't exactly go as described in all the books! A sprung branch released and whiplashed through the swarm. The swarm was small anyway and on reflection I may have missed the queen. So I don't think I even had a viable starter colony. I think that with a feeder on the hive then just attracted any passing bee for a free feed! Anyway lessons learned with more confidence to tackle any future swarms. The original small swarm was in a garden hedge of a lady in the next village. One final thought would the workers build comb for an unmated queen?

Yes ... they don't just need comb for the queen to lay, they need to store pollen and nectar and I've never known a swarm not start to build some comb - more so when they are fed. There's rarely a first in beekeeping so someone will be along to tell you it's happened to them. But ...in my experience - never seen it.

 

[Tony19]

Ok had a look in the BB yesterday and they appear to be drawing comb but only in the top corner of the first frame nearest the entrance! There are also flying bees coming and going. I'm going to leave them in peace for a few days then do a thorough inspection to finally establish that there is a Q present. I guess reading all the books you can is still no substitute for hands on experience. I'm still not sure what's going on.

 

[beeno]

The theory is that if the queen was not captured, lost or killed the swarm would go back to where they came from.

 

[Tony19]

The theory is that if the queen was not captured, lost or killed the swarm would go back to where they came from.

Looks like there's still hope then, they're sticking around and doing bee things, I've seen returning bees loaded with pollen.

 

[Eyeman]

Looks like there's still hope then, they're sticking around and doing bee things, I've seen returning bees loaded with pollen.

Captured swarms will start drawing comb within hours of being hived. There will be wax in my swarm bucket within an hour of capture. If there is nothing being drawn afte r10 days then it's not looking good- Sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

 

[Tony19]

Captured swarms will start drawing comb within hours of being hived. There will be wax in my swarm bucket within an hour of capture. If there is nothing being drawn afte r10 days then it's not looking good- Sorry to be the bringer of bad news.

That's ok free swarm, free experience, will do better next time. Or..........maybe these bees haven't been to bee school yet!!

 

[Tony19]

Had a frame of drawn comb given to me, they are now building up stores in this, so I've decided to leave them to it and check in another week. Meanwhile collected a second swarm, much larger. This was on the grass next to a footpath. Text book capture put nuc next to them applied a little smoke and they scampered right in. It helped that it was after 10pm. Left them in my garage overnight then put nuc in final hive position at 5am the following morning, opened nuc but on QEx setting they've settled in and are foraging. I'll remove the QEx after 24 hours, just in case the swarm has a virgin queen. I've looked on here for advice on feeding a swarm and its about equal for and against, so as there is plenty of forage I've decided to leave them to it. One final point due to advice already given with the first swarm I'll leave them in the nuc untill they outgrow it. Slight concern though we appear to have a badger on the allotments as all strawberries have disappeared! So this may sway decision to move into cedar hive, I'll sleep on it.

 

[Hachi]

If you have badgers a cedar hive wont protect it if they want whats in it.

Also I think we can be almost certain your swarm is Q- after this length of time for a number of reasons. You need to think thro your next steps

 

[Tony19]

If you have badgers a cedar hive wont protect it if they want whats in it.

Also I think we can be almost certain your swarm is Q- after this length of time for a number of reasons. You need to think thro your next steps

Thanks, main hive is rachet strapped together, with a large block, can't think of anything else to do.
Second captured swarm is doing nicely so may either consider buying a queen for first swarm (if no eggs prsent obviously) or amalgamate with second swarm colony. All due to be inspected on Monday.