Grafting, tips and tricks

[Poly Hive]

I keep the wax at just above the melting point, actually I dip until it is near skinned over then up the heat again.

If I am having bother getting the cups off, and remember your former should have been soaking for 24 hours, I add some washing up liquid to the water.

PH

 

[B+.]

When making wax cups, do you put some kind of lubricant or vaseline on the dowel before dipping in wax or there is no need?

Cold water is enough https://youtu.be/kyzAS5eZ2xA?list=PLbr7jvL12x96CATXF3u59e_lvLETOD6Vq&t=501 )

 

[bontbee]

Tried a Chinese grafting tool as it has the flexible "slide" - it just wrecked larvae, being huge and very coarse. Tried a purpose made stainless grafting tool, but next to a newly hatched larva it was like a sledgehammer! A lovely little 000 paintbrush, moistened with spit, does the job for me. Soft, flexible, tapered and more on the scale of a newly hatched larva.

 

[madasafish]

When making wax cups, do you put some kind of lubricant or vaseline on the dowel before dipping in wax or there is no need?

Soak dowel in water first.. wax will solidify on dowel but not stick so easily removed.

 

[Ian123]

When going through your cell raiser before your grafts are inserted you should find some qcells, if you have your little brush its easy to scoop some royal jelly out and freeze if needed. Just make sure its warmed up nicely. Also when inspecting your cell raiser before you put your grafts in i would say shake every frame off and inspect for rogue cells, they are very easy to miss when covered in a thick layer of bees. You can do this the day before or even 30 min before the bees soon sort them selves out, just not the same time you add the grafts. Whilst not saying you should rush you need to have everything needed to hand and be as quick as possible, so no stopping for a cuppa. When i was first shown how to do it the frame was taken from a hive wrapped in a towel into a warm/hot room with a pan of boiling water to create some humidity....I have had just as good results doing it on the front seat of the pick up.

 

[Ian123]

As an aside i make up a box wall to wall of the best capped brood i can find so lets say 12 frames. Standard practice is before grafting to remove the centre frame and put your crown board back on. When you return with your grafts complete gently lift crown board whilst twisting, you should be greated with a space full of bees between the fames. Your frame of grafts is then gently slid down, the whole purpose is to try and get the bees straight onto the cells.
So my thought was when colony is made up to insert a frame of eggs into the centre and gently remove this frame and shake bees back into gap before grafts are inserted as normal. I was wondering if this would actualy concentrate nurse bees that are actively feeding larvae.........Any thoughts
Also dont worry about stores you will find a constant feed of weak syrup during the process helps

 

[mbc]

....I have had just as good results doing it on the front seat of the pick up.[/QUOTE]

My favoured grafting station

 

[For want of a better word]

....I have had just as good results doing it on the front seat of the pick up.

My favoured grafting station[/QUOTE]

The mobile grafting room/ II room/ ..... caravan

is beginning to look more promising.... and at my age I could even take my forenoon nap in it !!!

How do I get that past SWMBO???

 

[Poly Hive]

Interesting that some are priming cells with RJ. I had thought that was debunked quite a few years ago?

PH

 

[B+.]

Interesting that some are priming cells with RJ. I had thought that was debunked quite a few years ago?

PH

It was. It makes no difference whether you graft wet or dry. The important thing is that the larvae are attended by lots of nurse bees quickly

 

[Hivemaker.]

Interesting that some are priming cells with RJ. I had thought that was debunked quite a few years ago?

It was, decades ago.

 

[mbc]

Interesting that some are priming cells with RJ. I had thought that was debunked quite a few years ago?

PH

Its a "getting the larvae off the brush cleanly" thing rather than a nutritional motive in my case.

 

[For want of a better word]

Interesting that some are priming cells with RJ. I had thought that was debunked quite a few years ago?

PH

Anyone tried dilute honey?

I have tried dry.... with RJ and with honey........RJ seems best...


but then I am crap at grafting!!!

 

[Finman]

Anyone tried dilute honey?

I have tried dry.... with RJ and with honey.......:

I bet that bees clean the honey away at once. Honey is not larva's food.
During first 3 days bees feed royal jelly to all larvae. So grafted larva has royal jelly with it.

 

[SDM]

Its a "getting the larvae off the brush cleanly" thing rather than a nutritional motive in my case.

Put the frame you are going to graft from into your cell raiser the night before or even a few hours before grafting. Larvae will be so well attended youll not need extra jelly to float them off.

 

[B+.]

Put the frame you are going to graft from into your cell raiser the night before or even a few hours before grafting. Larvae will be so well attended youll not need extra jelly to float them off.

The problem I can see with that is that the bees won't be selective. They will feed all the larvae

 

[SDM]

The problem I can see with that is that the bees won't be selective. They will feed all the larvae

All the appropriate larvae. Are you worried that theyd continue to raise any theyd selected as queens when/if it was returned to the donor colony ? If so its not happened yet. I keep my breeder queens in nucs and draw off brood regularly to hobble their laying rate and hopefully extend their lives. Id expect a Q+ colony with no swarming or supersedure intent to put an end to any Q cells they found. So far that plays out.

 

[Poly Hive]

TBH I have never done anything other than dry graft into wax cups. No priming the cells or over nighting or any of that "prep"

Sometimes I get great outcomes and other times its pretty poor. So I suspect the really critical issue is the starter box.

PH

 

[B+.]

All the appropriate larvae. Are you worried that theyd continue to raise any theyd selected as queens when/if it was returned to the donor colony ? If so its not happened yet. I keep my breeder queens in nucs and draw off brood regularly to hobble their laying rate and hopefully extend their lives. Id expect a Q+ colony with no swarming or supersedure intent to put an end to any Q cells they found. So far that plays out.

I actually have a number of concerns about your suggestion.
The ideal is to transfer grafted larvae of the right age into a well-stocked queenless hive. This will be full of nurse bees.
If you give them a frame of brood from your preferred colony, the workers will feed ALL of the larvae. i.e. you are diluting the potential of that cell raising colony. The "ideal" larvae will receive less nourishment than they would have done if you had only transferred them into the cell raiser. Also, by giving the cell raiser a whole frame, they wouldn't necessarily choose the larvae you would. Remember: these bees are in panic-mode and will feed older larvae so they get a "queen" as soon as possible. The ideal, younger larvae will get less food because they have to share it with others.

 

[B+.]

TBH I have never done anything other than dry graft into wax cups. No priming the cells or over nighting or any of that "prep"

Sometimes I get great outcomes and other times its pretty poor. So I suspect the really critical issue is the starter box.

PH

I tried one of those Nicot cages a long time ago. It was a complete disaster. No sooner had I released the queen after getting the cage laid up but they ate all the eggs she had laid in it. That was after following all the instructions (including prep). They just didn't want eggs in the cage!
Like you, I now stick to grafting into dry cups (artificial Nicot cups in my case) without any prep. It works great for me.
Of course, grafts can fail at each stage. The annoying bit is when you have the last few cells sitting in the incubator days after they should have emerged. Eventually, I get sick of waiting and open them up. Guess what I find....a dead larva that had died early in the process. TRPMO

Does anyone candle cells? I do occasionally, but, it rarely adds any value (although, it would have done in the example I cited above).