Got in a bit of a muddle…

[FidoDido]

So I’ve done my first harvest but I’m in a bit of a muddle as to what to do next.

I had 2 supers full (except for a couple of frames which were only capped one side) and one nearly full which I’m not taking.

I extracted the 2 full ones and then put them back on the hive so it went:

Two wet supers
Crown board
Nearly full super
QE
Broodbox.

They cleaned the wet frames beautifully. However it’s a big colony so I’ve left the two supers on the top as without them the bees seemed very overcrowded and unhappy (spilling out the front).

So it now goes:

CB
Two supers with cleaned frames
Nearly full super
QE
Brood box

Is this how I leave them for winter now? I’m really keen to leave them plenty of stores - although I’m happy to feed them if I need to I’d far rather have less for me and leave them the real stuff.

Also - what’s a fair price for a lb jar?

TIA!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Take out the QX and remove the cleaned supers. Foragers will be dying off without being replaced and the nest will contract.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Also - what’s a fair price for a lb jar?

What are your shops charging for local honey?
I get £6 for 12 oz in rural Wales. You can get £10 for 8oz in London.
Curly in Shropshire seems to get amazing prices for his honey
So….. it depends.

 

[E&MBees]

Have a look around at what is being sold locally and how it is being presented. I sell more now that I use the 8oz (227g) hex jars than when I used 12oz (340g) round even though the price per oz/g is more. Customers like the jar shape and size. It takes time to build up a returning customer base, but it’s worth the time and effort.

 

[ericbeaumont]

fair price for a lb jar

Only old school beekeepers sell in 454/1lb jars and when they do, it's at a giveaway 1983 price, like this Suffolk 454 from Number One Deli with a lazy old-tyme label that does nothing to attract contemporary customers.

Decide instead to support other beekeepers and sell in 340g/12oz jars at a good price. By using a 340 you will extend your stock and increase your return by 25%, because you will sell the 340 at the same price as a 454.

Put a 454 and a 340 next to each other and notice that they're not dissimilar in size; customers want a large jar and if that is a 340, they will be satisfied.

That comparative visual sizing is clear if you look, for example, at Number18 Boxford Honey. Nicely packaged Suffolk honey, but offered as a large/454 at £8, a medium/340 at £6.50 and a small/227 at £5. If I was to edit that list, I would offer a large/340 at £8 and a medium/227 at £5.50.

How to arrive at a price? First off, avoid the easy option of looking up the road and following the herd. A better pricing method: check out that local herd price but add a little more, and then set your own pence per gramme. For example, mine here in North London is currently .0295p/g, which extrapolates to £10/340, £7/235, £4/135, with a bit of rounding up or down.

Higher prices will shift your honey slower for a longer period, which is good for the direct or retail customer and will embed in their minds the value of local honey. Pay attention to label design (avoid beekeeping supplier designs) and sell your first stock at work or at the gate.

PS: you will have noticed that I fill and label a 227/8oz to 235, and a 113/4oz to 135; the increase gets honey into the bottom of the neck of the jar, which 227 and 113 of honey may not do, depending on your jar supplier. Try it, and see that a jar filled below the neck is not as visually appealing.

 

[enrico]

Definitely remove the two clean supers asap, they will move everything up into them otherwise, especially if you remove the excluder. You have to consider how bees live. As autumn approaches they will move all their stores to the top of the hive with any brood immediately underneath it. This is that, as winter approaches, they can start eating stores from the bottom up. As the winter continues and stores get less they will get closer to the top of the hive, this is the warmest part as heat rises, so they need less food to heat the top of the hive. The small amount of stores left at the top will last far longer than the lower stores. As spring approaches the queen will start to lay under the remaining stores and as he tar begins to come in the food will move up and the brood will move down again.

 

[ericbeaumont]

They cleaned the wet frames beautifully. However it’s a big colony so I’ve left the two supers on the top

Yes, ivy is starting to flower in some areas and if you leave them up there bees will refill.

 

[FidoDido]

Wow thank you everyone that’s really helpful.

Lets imagine I’ve already left the cleaned frames on for too long and they’ve already started to refill them what then?

Also, can I store frames all winter in a freezer, either with honey in (if they started to refill) or not?

 

[ericbeaumont]

already started to refill

If it's ivy, extract the minute it begins to cloud in the comb or it will set like concrete. If you can't be bothered to extract, nadir the supers for a week (but reduce the entrance to two beespaces, in case wasps start sniffing).

store frames all winter in a freezer

No need, but if you do, keep them in the super and freeze the whole lot, because frozen comb is brittle and single loose combs will shatter at the slightest nudge.

 

[FidoDido]

If it's ivy, extract the minute it begins to cloud in the comb or it will set like concrete. If you can't be bothered to extract, nadir the supers for a week (but reduce the entrance to two beespaces, in case wasps start sniffing).


No need, but if you do, keep them in the super and freeze the whole lot, because frozen comb is brittle and single loose combs will shatter at the slightest nudge.

The freezer I’ve ordered isn’t big enough to hold entire supers

What does “nadir for a week” mean?

 

[ericbeaumont]

What does “nadir for a week” mean?

Put the supers under the brood box; leave for a week or longer, even until spring.

Bees will clean them out because they want to be able to defend stores, which is why they put them above the nest.

 

[ericbeaumont]

freezer I’ve ordered

Too late to upgrade?

 

[FidoDido]

Too late to upgrade?

Yeah I think so… it was on offer too so I grabbed it. Still it’ll come in handy. I was hoping to store frames over the winter but it’ll still be handy to freeze them before storing.

 

[FidoDido]

Put the supers under the brood box; leave for a week or longer, even until spring.

Bees will clean them out because they want to be able to defend stores, which is why they put them above the nest.

So rather than store supers (with frames in) in a shed I can store them in the hive as long as they’re under the BB? Won’t they get wax moth?

 

[drex]

Put the supers under the brood box; leave for a week or longer, even until spring.

Bees will clean them out because they want to be able to defend stores, which is why they put them above the nest.

So why not put them on top in first place, saving the bees some work.? They can always go under the BB in early spring and removed then when empty

 

[ericbeaumont]

why not put them on top in first place, saving the bees some work.?

If ivy honey goes into super combs in the next few weeks it is better that bees move it up into the brood nest before it sets, rather than have it set in supers. If that happens, and the bees don't eat it, the combs will have to be soaked or scraped back in spring, which is more work and waste.

 

[ericbeaumont]

store them in the hive as long as they’re under the BB

Only as long as there are honey scraps in the combs for bees to clean out and put above.

If you stored them under and disaster happened in winter (flood, badger, rat, storm, theft) you would lose good combs, so best store in the shed, sealed top and bottom, once cleaned by bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you stored them under and disaster happened in winter (flood, badger, rat, storm, theft) you would lose good combs, so best store in the shed, sealed top and bottom, once cleaned by bees.

but save a lot of time and hassle by just storing wet, it also discourages waxmoth

 

[FidoDido]

but save a lot of time and hassle by just storing wet, it also discourages waxmoth

What’s that now!?? Store frames wet?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What’s that now!?? Store frames wet?

After extraction, stack them up, with a blank board top and bottom and cinch them all together with a couple of ratchet straps, they can be stored outside with just a roof to keep the rain off. if you only have a few supers, you can store them sealed up in a strong plastic bag.