Good Word for Thornes

[ribblesbees]

I tend to agree with you Paleoperson. its not always the product (quality or price that counts. (That's just a some of things to be taken into account, especially when laying out a lot of money) but its the quality of the back up service when things go wrong, are missing etc that counts for a lot for me.. that doesn't mean to say I'll buy cr*p stuff just because the aftersales service is excellent tho.

So far my experience of Thornes has been reasonable, a but pricey on some things, not the fastest of deliverers but then not the slowest, and excellent at righting wrongs.

 

[Hawklord]

We are in a recession

So why the hell have Thornes put the price of everything up annually, nucs of bees are £200 next year and orders are being taken already.

 

[JCBrum]

So why the hell have Thornes put the price of everything up annually, nucs of bees are £200 next year and orders are being taken already.

There are generally only two reasons for sharp price increases in a recession :-

1. the business is in financial difficulties and has no working capital, and no means of acquiring more, so money from new orders has to support everything. The business usually goes bust because it loses orders to the lower-priced competition.

2. business is so strong that demand far outstrips the supply, and you can charge what you like. This is not typical of a recession, but may apply in a narrow market.

There are a few other, rare, circumstances such as hidden embezzlement by the directors, or deliberate withdrawal of working capital by the directors prior to retirement, leaving the business deficient and 'for sale'. I would not imagine these apply to Thornes.

What is worrying about Thornes is that they reputedly have very little stock, and apparently cannot give any firm date for supplies being available again. A Thornes agent who recently visited the works told me yesterday that he wonders if they are not going to outsource their woodwork and other manufacturing to China. He thinks they are heavily importing wax already.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

>>What is worrying about Thornes is that they reputedly have very little stock, and apparently cannot give any firm date for supplies being available again. A Thornes agent who recently visited the works told me yesterday that he wonders if they are not going to outsource their woodwork and other manufacturing to China. He thinks they are heavily importing wax already.<<

Lots of new beekeepers, two bad years and suddenly a good year. it could simply be that Thornes were unable to forecast the sudden increase in demand this spring and could not catch up.

Lots of people must have found out their bees suddenly wanted to swarm or stuff everything full of honey and suddenly need more kit!

 

[oliver90owner]

So why the hell have Thornes put the price of everything up annually, nucs of bees are £200 next year and orders are being taken already.

Wages. Taxes. Supply and demand. Risks asociated with that line. Profit.

I deal with them. No gripes. Always helpful - well nearly always. Once it was cheaper for me to take my cash and nothing home from the shop, and order via e-mail. Asked re a reduction so we could both be happy. Nothing. So went home and ordered. Crazy, but true.

Gill always e-mails customer base re sales etc.

I will never travel to the summer clear-out (oops! - sale) again. Just like a looting session by the crowd except they are actually paying!

The winter sale for some items is good.

Very pleased earlier this year. Wanted some more of their adjustable toggle fasteners. Ordered 30 pairs as they were offered at the old price. The new design is cheaper than the older one, but is OK. Came March and the new catalogue price advanced by 40+%.

So to be fair, they have a catalogue price and they stick to it for the year, service is good, so no complaints. My choice to deal with them, or go elsewhere. Everyone has that option.

Regards, RAB

 

[JCBrum]

Wages. Taxes. Supply and demand. Risks asociated with that line. Profit.
RAB

Those are not valid reasons for price increases in a recession. Their costs are falling along with other prices. They risk becoming very uncompetitive on price.

Came March and the new catalogue price advanced by 40+%. So to be fair, they have a catalogue price and they stick to it for the year, service is good, so no complaints.
RAB

40% is a very big rise. Service is not good, they've got no stock on many things. Have they paid their suppliers ?

My choice to deal with them, or go elsewhere. Everyone has that option. Regards, RAB

Wrong again, if they have nothing available to fulfill your order your only choice is to go elsewhere !

Other suppliers do not seem to have such difficulties.

 

[steve1958]

I guess I have been fortunate.

Placed an order for a selection of items on Monday of this week (on-line)

Delivered this morning (Wednesday)

Less than 48 hours

 

[OXFORDBEE]

>>Their costs are falling along with other prices. <<

Recently UK prices have been signficantly effected by exchange rate movements, especially with imported $ and Euro priced items.....

 

[BKF Admin]

>>Their costs are falling along with other prices. <<

Recently UK prices have been signficantly effected by exchange rate movements, especially with imported $ and Euro priced items.....

I read about 9 months ago that uk companies got hit in the pocket with the exchange rate after euro companies put up supply prices by an average of 20%

They said they could not carry the rise for to long before passing it on to the customer as many worked off less than 20% profit margin.

 

[Hawklord]

I think basically it boils down to the massive amount of media coverage the bees have received and so drawn loads of new beeks in. However the problem for bee keeping suppliers will start within the next 2 years when the novelty has worn off, then there will be loads of good quality 2nd hand equipment for sale, and of course bees.

 

[oliver90owner]

they have not planned well enough for demand...... leaving the rest of us with our only local outlet empty of stock.

Please forgive me for stating the obvious but they weren't the only ones who didn't plan ahead well enough. Beekeepers are no better than Thorne's at ordering early!

Regards, RAB

 

[OXFORDBEE]

>>Beekeepers are no better than Thorne's at ordering early!<<

As already mentioned!

 

[JCBrum]

Er, hang on a minute, it's Thornes that are supposed to hold the stock, not beekeepers.

They are certainly losing sales to competitors who are able to supply. That's not good business practice.

JC.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

If you are a good beekeeper you have equipment to hand.... it's called planning in advance.

Always relying on a supplier to cover you is a risky strategy...

I think the current situation is being exassivated by the huge increase in the number of beekeepers after years of decline.

 

[JCBrum]

Sorry oxfordbee, you buy what you need, - not for all eventualities. To do otherwise is simply inefficient. That doesn't mean you never have any spare kit available, but to suggest that we should make up for Thornes stock problem by holding the stock ourselves is not sensible. If you carry on that line of thinking we wouldn't need them at all.

Come to think of it, if their stock problems persist, then maybe we won't, 'cause we won't be able to buy anything to stock up with anyway !

p.s. pity Thornes didn't do a bit of your advance planning !

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Look at another way; do you buy a years worth of food from Tesco’s? NO. You buy want you want when you need it, because they (nearly) always have it or a similar brand etc.

Tesco has quite a large budget simply for planning ahead, a simple one being strawberries around Wimbledon time.

Another thing Tesco’s are rather good at (+ others) is making you think you need it i.e. driving the market.

Its called advertising.

Somthing the Omlet people are being poo pooed on becuase they used this new fangled thing called the media....oh and they are making a few pounds out of it as well. Shock horror.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

>>Sorry oxfordbee, you buy what you need, - not for all eventualities. To do otherwise is simply inefficient. <<

Very true and from the perspective of a small supplier with a large range it is simply inefficient for them to have an extremely large stock holding (in a recession and with currency fluctuations) waiting for beekeepers to buy it when they don't know what the demand will be (in terms of beekeepers) and how the season will pan out. No beekeeping supplier in the UK can afford to keep a huge number of items just so every beekeeper can get the equipment they want when they need it.

An appliance dealer has to predict what they think the demand will be and manufacture in advance. If for whatever reason an appliance dealer gets their sales forcast incorrect they won't be able to catch up when sales surge or will have to grovel at their bank managers feet if sales decline.

In predicting demand there is very strong seasonal profile to beekeeping equipment (it's sell...sell...sell between April and July) there is also a confounding variable in the number of customers and their requirements. For example my local association has over 40 beginners booked on the beginners course for next year.

It is easy to forget we are going through a boom period after years of declining mumbers of beekeepers and colonies. The initial wave of varroa infestation lead to a significant decline int he number of beekeepers. The subsequent appearance of pyrethroid resistant varroa is exerting an effect as well. We now have a surge in the number of beekeepers and a spike in demand.

It is not a question of covering "Thornes stock problem by holding the stock ourselves". It is about beekeepers realising that when they need kit urgently, other beekeepers probably do, at the same time!

I'm sure that Thornes will increase their stock holding next year. Their next problem will be in not holding too much stock when the beekeeping craze fades....

 

[OXFORDBEE]

>>Tesco has quite a large budget simply for planning ahead, a simple one being strawberries around Wimbledon time.<<

Comparison of a small beekeeping operation with an extremely large retailer is a bit unfair. Tescos no no doubt have a good seasonal model to forecast what they will sell. They probably also have a team of statisticians helping them predict demand and acorn data on the demographic profile of their customers and loyalty card data. They can also cover themselves against the losses incurred by over ordering strawberries by sales of other non seasonal lines.

Gill probably has a spreadsheet.

 

[JCBrum]

>>Sorry oxfordbee, you buy what you need, - not for all eventualities. To do otherwise is simply inefficient. <<

Very true and from the perspective of a small supplier with a large range it is simply inefficient for them to have an extremely large stock holding (in a recession and with currency fluctuations) waiting for beekeepers to buy it when they don't know what the demand will be (in terms of beekeepers) and how the season will pan out.

No one is expecting an extremely large stockholding, ...... just an ordinary level will do !

You can't fudge the issue here, it's Thornes job to have the stuff available for purchase. There isn't any. It isn't up to us beeks to do their job for them. We already pay for the service in their prices. They've got it wrong. eos.

No beekeeping supplier in the UK can afford to keep a huge number of items just so every beekeeper can get the equipment they want when they need it.

Well Thornes used to do that pretty well, and they're generally putting their prices up at the moment. We're paying and they're not delivering.

I'm sure that Thornes will increase their stock holding next year. Their next problem will be in not holding too much stock when the beekeeping craze fades....

Do you mean they're going to get it wrong again ! they wouldn't be able to survive that commercially. One might think they are struggling as it is !

 

[oliver90owner]

JCBrum,

Can we assume you are no longer a Thorne customer? I think we have possibly got that message.

I will decide who I deal with. I order well in advance. I have had no problems with the service from Thorne. The items advanced by 40% were possibly on 2 years previous prices and the design was different. I think they were not in the previous year's price list. Nevertheless, I got a good deal as they stuck to their previous price and delivered later - in plenty of time as I ordered well in advance (actually shortly before the new price list was due out), BTW).

You have said your piece. Probably enough for everyone. Even supermarkets run out of stock at times, obviously not such a limited supply-base as Thorne's might have, either. It has been noted that in the past even common commodities like water and fuel have been in short supply at times. In the years ahead energy may well be rationed.

I do not like some of the prices Thorne's charge. If that is the case I have several options. Do without, go elsewhere, buy a different make, make my own, or approach the problem/issue from another direction.

One can always e-mail or phone to check availability before submitting an order.

I am sure that Thorne's would have budgetted for the year, predicted sales and kept an appropriate normal level of stock for those predictions. It is likewise very difficult for suppliers to make sudden, extra, un-budgetted deliveries, as they are in exactly the same boat!

Trading reports at the end of the year will show whether Thorne's managed to improve sales or exceeded targets or whatever.

You obviously did not forecast such an increase in demand - or you would have thought ahead a little more.

As for the rest of the suppliers, who still have everything in stock, well done. They have another customer. They may well be running short of some lines, but where do you think that the majority of new beekeepers go for their first order? Yes, you've got it. Thorne. But no, they should not have sold their stock to them. They should have kept it on the shelf for you. Yeah, right.

RAB