Going queen excluder-less

[Levitt53]

I am hoping to start to not use queen excluders. I'm fed up with trying to clean them, they are causing me condensation problems and I find it the colony is a bit tetchy then trying to get it off winds them up to start with.

I've already started to do it with smaller colonies that only have one super with marked queens. I generally try to keep my colonies to one brood box and tend to do a snelgrove split if they are getting too big. I am guessing that when you add a super if you don't use a QX then you are best to put it above the first one. Has anyone any other advice on the way to go as colonies get bigger?

 

[Swarm]

Many say she won't cross the honey, I've seen a case of chimneying myself.

 

[Finman]

.i have nursed hives 55 years without excluder.

My hives have been 6-8 Langstroth boxes in summer. I have joined smaller hives for msin yield if they are smaller.

If you split the hive, when they become ready to harvest yield, you will not get any crop from hives.



You cannot hinder laying without excluder. Many do in my country so, that up to July hives are without excluder and then they put exluder and deminish laying for winter cluster size.

What do you mean by condensation?

 

[Levitt53]

.i have nursed hives 55 years without excluder.

My hives have been 6-8 Langstroth boxes in summer. I have joined smaller hives for msin yield if they are smaller.

If you split the hive, when they become ready to harvest yield, you will not get any crop from hives.



You cannot hinder laying without excluder. Many do in my country so, that up to July hives are without excluder and then they put exluder and deminish laying for winter cluster size.

What do you mean by condensation?

The snelgrove split doesn't really hinder honey production in theory as the flyers go back to the bottom hive.

I find that some condensation gets in between the poly boxes where the QE means they don't lie flat. It's not really a problem, but I'd like to make them more snug.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have poly hives and use excluders but never get condensation
What sort of QX are you using?

 

[Finman]

The snelgrove split doesn't really hinder honey production in theory as the flyers go back to the bottom hive.

Ig.

What ever split you do, it takes workers from the hive. The hive needs brood, that it gets more home bees. The hive needs home bees, which nurse brood and all kind of honey works. And after 3 weeks home bees become foragers.

It seems that you have your special aims in beekeeping.

 

[drex]

I have no problem with condensation either, and seeing as how an excluder is in the warmest part of the hive, just above the brood, I wonder how this can happen. I have no problem removing my wood framed wire excluders either. Just a quick puff of smoke over the top. In season I just scrape brace comb off with hive tool. Only gets a proper clean before going into storage for winter.
I run double brood all year round and there is always enough space for my queens to lay. When I was on single brood I used to get a lot of pollen in first super.

 

[jeff33]

I have poly hives and use excluders but never get condensation
What sort of QX are you using?

It must be plexiglass Dani!

What ever split you do, it takes workers from the hive.

I will disagree Finman, demaree doesn't take workers away from the hive and it is a split albeit a preventative one!

 

[Repwoc]

I find that some condensation gets in between the poly boxes where the QE means they don't lie flat.

It sounds more like a leak than condensation.

 

[Levitt53]

I use plastic QEs but find the bees put a lot of propolis on them so that they are fairly stuck down everytime I come to take them off. The condensation is sometimes just a bit outside the QE to the edge of the poly boxes as the QEs are obviously smaller than the outside dimensions. Maybe I just need wider QEs. However as I've said it isn't a big problem so don't want it to detract from my original question.

Getting back to the original questions - is there any specific advice anyone can give to managing colonies with out QEs?

 

[Curly green finger's]

I use plastic QEs but find the bees put a lot of propolis on them so that they are fairly stuck down everytime I come to take them off. The condensation is sometimes just a bit outside the QE to the edge of the poly boxes as the QEs are obviously smaller than the outside dimensions. Maybe I just need wider QEs. However as I've said it isn't a big problem so don't want it to detract from my original question.

Getting back to the original questions - is there any specific advice anyone can give to managing colonies with out QEs?

Make sure your queen's are marked, I've also a few colonys without qxs

Pros.. The Queen has free access to all the hive.

There's no barrier between boxes so colonys can store food easier.

I've not seen a chimney effect, and I've found the Queen will only really lay in the first super( middle frames).

I know you may shoot me down but using a three box system 1 brood a two half's ( box reversal two or three times in the spring) obviously helps with not having qxs.

Cons to be continued as I'm at work..

Colony that is a three box system and has had reversals three times this season and has produced 35kgs of spring honey and 20kgs of summer honey so far and there's more to come if the weather plays its part.

I've also manipulated the frames in all three boxes.

 

[Finman]

I will disagree Finman, demaree doesn't take workers away from the hive and it is a split albeit a preventative one!

It depends , if you know what you are doing.

I do demaree reactively, when I see queen cells in the hive. = artificial swarm.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Getting back to the original questions - is there any specific advice anyone can give to managing colonies without QEs?

A QX is a tool like any other and there are times when it's useful: at or just before the main flow some beekeepers put the Q in the bottom box and put on the QX; once the brood above the QX emerges, bees backfill on the main flow.

I share management of 150 Nationals, all run on BBs only and without QXs unless we want supers of cut comb. We use (roughly) Tim Rowe's box management method; swarming is much reduced because by May they're on three or four boxes. Unless you've selected for Qs that produce small nests, I can't work out how on one BB you reduce swarming and make big colonies to make big honey (bees are very keen on the latter two, even if you're not ).

On my 80 I use supers (because I've got them) above wood-framed QXs (because I've got them) but run plenty on triple BBs below, which as above reduces swarming considerably (so long as I box them before it's too late!). Once the main flow is on, the third (top) BB ends up full of honey which is a palaver to extract without a swing-basket extractor, but there you go.

A useful QX is a box full of honey because the Q will generally not cross slabs of honey to the boxes above. I've found she'll cross honey if the frames are less than full.

I reckon the plastic QXs are a false economy: as you've found, bees propolise them, bee space disappears in brace comb, it's difficult to avoid killing bees when putting them back on and time taken to fiddle with them is infuriating. If you can't justify the cost of a wood framed QX, save your £3 (from STB on eBay) and do without.

 

[fiat500bee]

We use (roughly) Tim Rowe's box management method; swarming is much reduced because by May they're on three or four boxes.

I like your very balanced and well reason views.

 

[gmonag]

Yes, take a look at the Rose Hive Method.

 

[Levitt53]

Ok thanks all. I do have the Rose Hive book somewhere so I'll dig it out and remind myself.