Fun calculations

[margob99]

I transferred 7 BS brood frames full of brood into a new 14x12 hive, surrounded of course by 5 14x12 new frames.

"margob99,

They will surely build wild comb below the short frames in preference to drawing the foundation. You would have been well advised to have placed a block of anything unchewable by the bees in that 'space'. You will be losing a lot of fresh comb when you come to replace those frames at a later date.

Somewhere around the place I might find a couple of polystyrene blocks covered in duct tape which have been used previously. A cut-down cardboard box was used as my first block, a long time ago as I had experienced oodles of wild comb after about my second year.

Regards, RAB"

I am having huge fun at work (not working obviously) calculating the critical dimensions of the block suggested by RAB (see above).

Ie 7 BS frames in a 14x12 brood box. What would the correct (critical) dimensions be to fill the space below to ensure the bees don't build any wild comb below?

I calculate:

356mm wide (being the exact width of the frame excluding lugs)

87mm high (being the difference in height between a BS frame and a 14x12 frame less the all-important 1cm for beespace between the block and the bottom of the frame)

196mm deep (being the depth of the 7 BS frames). Here I must admit my calcs go a bit haywire, because I'm using this page from Dave Cushman's website and he shows 28mm deep without appearing to including the very end bits of the spacers, so I'm assuming it's 28mmm ex-beespace.

Would love to get other's input, and happy to be flamed, ridiculed, laughed and pointed at, in the interests of learning

 

[oliver90owner]

Don't get too technical about it.

360-370mm wide (bee space to zero clearance). So about 1 3/4 house bricks!

Eke for converting deep to 14 x 12 (or the difference in brood box depths, or the difference between an 8 1/2 deep frame and a 12 inch jumbo frame) So about 3 1/2 inch or approx 90mm. 100mm will do, as there is aways spare room under the frames to the floor. So we now have 1 3/4 house bricks on their sides! Simple innit?

Front to back is going to be 7/12 of 420mm (we can just squeeze in 12 Hoffmans at 35 spacing - got to be careful here? Or the rear-most 14 x 12s wont fit. Oh, no real bother to be too accurate, as the frame is narrowed at the bottom end!


Now the dodgy bit - are your deeps hoffmans or spacered? Won't get 7 spacered frames and 5 hoffmans in the same box (new beeks - please note this if your frames are not Hoffmans). Yes I know yours are Hoffmans, 'cos you gave the game away in post #1!

So seven times 35 mm (= 245 mm is the biggest you aim for. Less a bee space at the back, maybe, so 240mm is close enough. Three rows of 1 3/4 house bricks laid on their sides is probably close enough if a gap of 9mm were left behind and between the bricks.

Now the simple alternative might be a couple of pieces of 100 mm sawn timber as bearers with a sheet of thinnest/cheapest ply slipped on top!

Margo, it is not that critical! Honestly. So a piece of 100mm x 360mm (and another piece, which could be much shorter than that) of sawn timber (or pallet scrap) and a piece of hardboard/thin ply/plastic about 365mm by about 200-245mm. Job done (except putting it in situ!)

You really need your deeps at the back and your 14 x 12's at the front - the nest tends to be developed towards the front rather than the back of the box and that simplifies things as the 'removal' frames are at the back.

Your sheet could be made up with 2 or 3 35mm wide strips to accommodate the removal of a single frame at a time, but what I would do is wait until the front frames are drawn and then remove some and the spacer at the same time. The bees would not then build wild comb right at the back of the box with the brood nest positioned close to the front.

I would not contemplate any of this unless I had only a single colony or two, like you, and wanted to maximise the build-up so as to get a better harvest later.

I did it in my early days for that very reason. Nowadays, I would probably leave in the wild comb until the next opportunity to 'out' them (next spring?).

Regards, RAB

 

[margob99]

To be honest, I'm not hugely fussed about maximising the honey harvest I just love keeping bees.

Thank you for such a comprehensive answer, RAB (unfortunately, they're making me do actual work now, so I will have to wait to spend time interpreting it all for after-hours. Curses. How very dare they!)