French Horizontal Bee Hives

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

Thank you for the invitation to this forum, my name is Mike Purcell from the UK soon to be relocating to La belle France with the aim of starting a bee-keeping "hobby" and passion. I plan to start with capturing local native swarms using lemongrass oil in swarm traps made of discarded pallets. I am experimenting with building insulated horizontal hives built to a height of a modern kitchen work top and with a depth to contain interlocking double brood frames 600mm deep), this has never been done quite like this before which makes the experiment even more exciting. I am interested in connecting with like minded entrepreneurial bee keepers in France to share idea.

 

[Boston Bees]

Thank you for the invitation to this forum, my name is Mike Purcell from the UK soon to be relocating to La belle France with the aim of starting a bee-keeping "hobby" and passion. I plan to start with capturing local native swarms using lemongrass oil in swarm traps made of discarded pallets. I am experimenting with building insulated horizontal hives built to a height of a modern kitchen work top and with a depth to contain interlocking double brood frames 600mm deep), this has never been done quite like this before which makes the experiment even more exciting. I am interested in connecting with like minded entrepreneurial bee keepers in France to share idea.

Very interesting. Is there a reason for going so much deeper frame depth than a Layens (which I understand are common in France, and which sound similar to what you are planning) ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Mike and welcome.
I’ve tagged one member for you @Charente beekeeper so perhaps you can hook up. If you put Charente in the search there are a few others.

 

[Murox]

Hi and welcome. You might find this link to Lazutin hives of interest. 600mm deep is around 150mm deeper than a Lazutin, he had them that deep because bees in his area could overwinter better on deeper comb, no gaps to cross as they move up in longer winters. Layens frames are fairly common (not in the uk though) and are give or take the same size as Dadant turned on end. Enjoy your experimenting.

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

Very interesting. Is there a reason for going so much deeper frame depth than a Layens (which I understand are common in France, and which sound similar to what you are planning) ?

Hi Boston Bees my reason for the double brood chamber depth are 2-fold; No1 wintering bees on this depth frames allows for a more natural cluster, the dividing bar between the 2x 300 deep frames is a 20mm sliding dove tail bar, apparently bees will still cluster across this space (but no deeper). No2 By having interlocking 600 depth frames allows for greater real estate usage in the hive for honey production. Lifting a super full of honey can be very heavy and tough on the back vs lifting one 47x600 frame at a time (at work top height) is what I call practical bee keeping. The key to this project has been the creating of the double deep brood frame that can be easily fixed together and dissembled with losing the strength and integrity of the frame.....this is where the sliding dove-tail fitting comes into its own

 

[Boston Bees]

Hi Boston Bees my reason for the double brood chamber depth are 2-fold; No1 wintering bees on this depth frames allows for a more natural cluster, the dividing bar between the 2x 300 deep frames is a 20mm sliding dove tail bar, apparently bees will still cluster across this space (but no deeper). No2 By having interlocking 600 depth frames allows for greater real estate usage in the hive for honey production. Lifting a super full of honey can be very heavy and tough on the back vs lifting one 47x600 frame at a time (at work top height) is what I call practical bee keeping. The key to this project has been the creating of the double deep brood frame that can be easily fixed together and dissembled with losing the strength and integrity of the frame.....this is where the sliding dove-tail fitting comes into its own

Fascinating - thanks

So you can separate the frame into two sections for extraction in a normal extractor?

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

Hi and welcome. You might find this link to Lazutin hives of interest. 600mm deep is around 150mm deeper than a Lazutin, he had them that deep because bees in his area could overwinter better on deeper comb, no gaps to cross as they move up in longer winters. Layens frames are fairly common (not in the uk though) and are give or take the same size as Dadant turned on end. Enjoy your experimenting.

Hi Murox good to hear back from you, my double deep brood frame work due to hives being built in the 1st place with natural insulation (straw-bale) and 2ndly the divider bar between the 2x 300 deep frames is max 20mm. Research shows that bees appear to survive better when clustering in depth rather than having to cluster in width.....I am open to hearing others views

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

Fascinating - thanks

So you can separate the frame into two sections for extraction in a normal extractor?

quite so.....its revolutionary....lol

 

[Boston Bees]

quite so.....its revolutionary....lol

Good idea. Pics please. And get it patented!

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

the middle bar design is key and requires a level of carpentry skills to build, what we are talking about is a sliding dove-tail making a sliding bar. This is about man having the ingenuity to be continually improving systems in order for getting higher performance from "bees" in this case. Very happy to share my ideas with like minded people

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

Good idea. Pics please. And get it patented!

I am not into making the design into a business, I am just happy to share this creativity with others, I`ve done very well in business and now wishing to give back to those who understand it and more importantly do something with it. Where abouts in the world are you located and what is your name?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Research shows that bees appear to survive better when clustering in depth rather than having to cluster in width.....I am open to hearing others views

My double nucs winter really well in this configuration

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

what we are talking about is a sliding dove-tail making a sliding bar

Have you tested this? my fear would be that it will quickly be propolised solid or covered in brace comb.

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

Fascinating - thanks

So you can separate the frame into two sections for extraction in a normal extractor?

The key to this is down to the "sliding dove tail joint" on the middle bar that is no deeper than 20mm, this allow for the 2 frames to be separated for honey centrifuge extraction, when done slide back into it becoming a single double deep frame for either honey of brood.

 

[mikepurcell@silverhouseuk]

My double nucs winter really well in this configuration

the double brood frame is specific to this horizontal hive, it`s just another idea into the world of bee keeping

 

[pargyle]

the double brood frame is specific to this horizontal hive, it`s just another idea into the world of bee keeping

Interestingly, the deep frame, highly insulated, long hive is found in the Zest Hive: Very successful if you believe what the orignator has to say about it ... I've met him on a couple of occasions and he's very open and receptive so I have no reason to doubt anything he says,

To a lesser extent I find my 14 x 12 framed Long Deep Hive a really good hive for the bees (as I've said on many occasions). Not sure about the complex nature of your frames - I rather suspect (and have personally proved to my own satisfaction) that anything that the bees feel needs improvement or containing will be done with the aid of propolis ... sliding dovetail joints sound like something they will have a great deal of fun with - mostly at your expense,

As one bee experimenter to another, I wish you well with your foray into re-inventing the wheel - I've been there a few times and you usually find that the simpler ways that have proven to work are the best. But - go for it ... and let us know how you get on when the bees have had some time to assess your efforts.

https://www.thezesthive.com/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Interestingly, the deep frame, highly insulated, long hive is found in the Zest Hive: Very successful if you believe what the orignator has to say about it ... I've met him on a couple of occasions and he's very open and receptive so I have no reason to doubt anything he says

I usually find myself sitting next to the nutter on the bus as well

 

[pargyle]

I usually find myself sitting next to the nutter on the bus as well

Well ... you know ... there's more than one way of skinning a cat rather than just nailing its ears to the door and pulling its tail !

One of these days I'm going to build a Zest hive just to see if it works as well as Bill Summers says it does. I think I'd stick with 14 x 12 frames though as I'm not sufficiently masochistic to get involved with crush and strain ... might work well for cut comb honey though ?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I usually find myself sitting next to the nutter on the bus as well

Worse when you're driving in a strange town and get lost. Spot someone, stop to ask, wind down window and get a drooling babbling head pushed inside the car. I had a friend who seemed to attract this sort of local character

 

[Frizzaldo]

what is the upside to the dovetail joint vs the brackets detailed in the Lazutin hive link?

What are the frames made from? it will be two pretty thin pieces of wood you are joining with a thin dovetail, I would doubt pine would be strong enough if there is significant weight in the bottom half.
Pine could also swell in moist hive environment making joint difficult to separate.

The top bar gives the frame a lot of its strength, once separated i would think the bottom half would be very delicate especially with newly drawn wax, is it something you've tested? maybe a temporary reinforcement could be slid in for extraction and handling