Frames

[RodBromiley]

Hi, I'm looking to buy frames for my National hives. I obviously want quality frames preferably ready made up. Can anyone advise where to get quality frames at sensible prices. Also what type of frames are best, this will obviously open a debate. I'm new to beekeeping, not planning on getting bees till spring.

 

[enrico]

Hi, I'm looking to buy frames for my National hives. I obviously want quality frames preferably ready made up. Can anyone advise where to get quality frames at sensible prices. Also what type of frames are best, this will obviously open a debate. I'm new to beekeeping, not planning on getting bees till spring.

Can of worms. Frames usually don't come made up but they are not too difficult to put together when you get the hang of it! The best thing to do is look at a catalogue from someone like thorns.you can get Hoffman self spacing, but personally I don't like them as it is easy to kill bees. So I use the cheap ones. DN1 and then use plastic spacers.
The D stands for deep as in brood and the S stands for shallow as in super. The numbers donate the type of top bar or the style of frame. All I would suggest is that you buy a staple gun that fires small brads, it makes making frames so much easier. And always use the same style of frame. Ie if you start with hoffman then stick with hoffman.
If you search for frames you will find plenty of threads on the subject
Good luck
E

 

[La Folie]

And I always use Hoffman self-spacers. Personal choice and as many opinions as there are frames. Th*rnes and the other makers often sell seconds which are a bit cheaper and fine. Can even get them off E*ay, I have and they have been fine.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hoffman self spacers in the brood and SN1 with metal castellations in the supers every time. Nothing wrong with second quality frames from big T's or Maisies very few on a batch of 50 are unusable - simple to put together and it's something to do in the winter months. You can get them ready put together but why waste the extra money?

 

[MuswellMetro]

First i would say that some beekeepers find the national rather small for the modern hybrid bees, so if you intend to use the standard modifed national 14x8 brood box then make sure you obtain your bees from a beekeepers who keeps his bees without problems in a 14x8 nationalhive, otherwise you may need larger 14x12 version of the national because the supplier has given you carnelians or italian hybrids

although i buy in bulk sn5 & SN7 and 14x12 in the winter sales my choice of made up national frames would be hoffmans DN4 or DN5 from Park beekeeping supplies of blackheath as he imports his own frames rather than gets them from the usual suspects, /he is also trialing made up a pre-wired national hoffman frame (not yet in his on line catelogue)

 

[itma]

Hi, I'm looking to buy frames for my National hives. I obviously want quality frames preferably ready made up. Can anyone advise where to get quality frames at sensible prices. Also what type of frames are best, this will obviously open a debate. I'm new to beekeeping, not planning on getting bees till spring.

Making up frames from the parts is one of the "Basic" beekeeping skills.
Not something to fear.
And brings an appreciation of how different combinations of a few standard parts gives a range of different frame types.


I'd suggest you get a copy of the Thorne's catalogue, as this has an excellent few pages on different frame types, parts and wax foundation. (You can download it from their website and print your own copy, if you don't want to ask them for the original.)

For a beginner, I'd suggest the mainstream option of DN4 (hoffmans) in the brood box and SN1 on 10-slot castellations in the supers.
There are (IMHO) better choices, but that's the simplest mainstream standard.
And foundation - worker cell size and wired. That's standard.

Me? I tend to buy 2nds in Thorne's New Year sale. Plenty good enough, decent value.
And I'd echo the 14x12 advice (its simple to convert the brood box).

Best quality? Probably frames from NBS in Devon and foundation from KBS in Sussex …

 

[BeeJayBee]

... he is also trialing made up a pre-wired national hoffman frame (not yet in his on line catelogue)

These are the only frames I would consider buying ready made, even though it's easy enough to wire my own.

Unwired plus wired foundation are very quick, and very easy, to put together once you've had a bit of practice - and if you do it yourself you should know they're put together properly, no missed nails etc..

Buying seconds frames can save a lot when compared to 'first' prices, it makes frames almost disposable - is there any real point in spending time and using raw materials to clean them, when replacements are cheap?

 

[Hivemaker.]

- is there any real point in spending time and using raw materials to clean them, when replacements are cheap?

Yes, if they are in good condition, there may be thousands of frames that are only a month or so old, just need re waxing.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Yes, if they are in good condition, there may be thousands of frames that are only a month or so old, just need re waxing.

Good point.

 

[Davelin]

Hoffman self spacers in the brood and SN1 with metal castellations in the supers every time. Nothing wrong with second quality frames from big T's or Maisies very few on a batch of 50 are unusable - simple to put together and it's something to do in the winter months. You can get them ready put together but why waste the extra money?

100%

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hoffman self spacers in the brood and SN1 with metal castellations in the supers every time. Nothing wrong with second quality frames from big T's or Maisies very few on a batch of 50 are unusable - simple to put together and it's something to do in the winter months. You can get them ready put together but why waste the extra money?

I'm entirely with JBM on this - though I am with MuswellMetro in using 14x12 brood boxes.

The national deep isn't really big enough either in the season (when the queen needs room to brood) or the winter (where they really need more stores than a standard deep can hold). People get round this by using 'brood and a half ' or double brood - but this makes things extra complicated- which new beekeeper's don't want. To be fair though, as most beeks use standard deeps, it complicates things to use 14x12 when you want to borrow/donate frames or install a nuc.

Hoffman self spacing frames are best for the brood box as you want to maximise your frames with an accurate 'bee space'. I think plastic spacers are a pain as they slip off, move around etc. You don't squash bees if you are careful.
I strongly recommend you also get dummy frames, to give you room to work when doing inspections. I didn't in my first year and got a lot of dead and angry bees, which had been 'rolled' as I took out frames, packed too full in the brood box.

You need straight SN1 frames in the supers, on castellations of 10 or 9 frames, for the bees to draw out. Of course, if you need supers for brood and a half, toy will need separate castellations to match the number of frames in the brood box below (usually 11). They are easily changed.

Hope that helps,

Dusty

 

[RodBromiley]

Eric, thanks as always, you have helped many times and always with a great explanation behind your advice.

 

[RodBromiley]

Can I thank all of you. When I asked about Hives I got so many inputs. a great variety of answers regarding frames too. I will read and absorb the information. You guys are really GOLD. Thanks so much.

 

[Marton]

I'm entirely with JBM on this - though I am with MuswellMetro in using 14x12 brood boxes.



I strongly recommend you also get dummy frames, to give you room to work when doing inspections. I didn't in my first year and got a lot of dead and angry bees, which had been 'rolled' as I took out frames, packed too full in the brood box.

I started last year with 14*12s as the logic of cell numbers seemed right for a god laying queen. So far so good .

I was puzzled by the reference to dummy frames rather than dummy boards.





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[jenkinsbrynmair]

II was puzzled by the reference to dummy frames rather than dummy boards.

I think he meant boards (he's getting on a bit you know )

 

[Marton]

So am I. Well so my children say.


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[REDWOOD]

If you want to know where to insert your nails;
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/frameassy.html

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I think he meant boards (he's getting on a bit you know )

What? What?

Matron! The screens!

Dusty

P.s. I like Marton's reference to a 'God laying queen' - or 'Mary' as she is often known! (Post 14)