Frames in supers

[Levitt53]

This is probably a stupid question. I've just put together my first super. I was sold 11 frames to go with, 6 of which have spacers. However there is still loads of room. There is at least space for one more frame in here but even then it's not tight. What have I done wrong or is this right or should they all have spacers?

I'm getting a bit frustrated with all this DIY. And some people build their own hives!! Deep breath.

 

[Robbo8916]

As far as I know they should all have spacers. Often people use the wider spacers in supers to increase the depth of the comb, thereby producing more honey per frame and less frames to extract if that makes sense?

Its a bit of an exact science but the wider spacers provide deeper comb without the bees building comb in between frames, making them difficult to remove.

 

[thenovice]

This is probably a stupid question. I've just put together my first super. I was sold 11 frames to go with, 6 of which have spacers. However there is still loads of room. There is at least space for one more frame in here but even then it's not tight. What have I done wrong or is this right or should they all have spacers?

I'm getting a bit frustrated with all this DIY. And some people build their own hives!! Deep breath.

yup the confusion of supers . I am not an expert but the idea is that the bees can draw super frames out a lot and fill them with more honey over time. so you would start with X frames when on foundation and later on (next season or after extraction?) reduce the frames to set them further apart to allow more honey to be stored per frame. that is why you can buy castellations with different number of slots. I am sure there are some on here who have this down to an art but I would not worry too much about it in your first year. Keep your frames nice and tight to one side of the box to avoid wonky comb. a bit of leftover space is probably normal. if it is a lot, you got the wrong spacers.

 

[thenovice]

As far as I know they should all have spacers. Often people use the wider spacers in supers to increase the depth of the comb, thereby producing more honey per frame and less frames to extract if that makes sense?

Its a bit of an exact science but the wider spacers provide deeper comb without the bees building comb in between frames, making them difficult to remove.

you can get spacers that only go on alternate frames.

 

[Levitt53]

Yes I was told to put them on alternate frames. I'm not planning on using a queen excluder so they might be honey and might be brood. I'm thinking I should just get another frame to go in here. Would that be best?

 

[thenovice]

12 frames seems a lot. are you on Brittish National standard?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

what frames do you have in the brood box? Hoffman's or DN1's? if you're going to go sans QX the spacings in the brood and supers should be identical. If you have DN1's with plastic spacers in the brood you should have identical in the supers.

 

[Levitt53]

Yes British National. I have a brood and a half hive that I got a few weeks ago. It hasn't been opened yet since I've had it so I don't know what that's like inside. I've bought another brood and super to be ready to split if necessary, trying to be organised! I've built the super before the brood box but was told that the brood box frames have small spaces on each frame (not hoffmans) and the super has large spaces on every other frame. I have heard or read this somewhere else as well. Maybe I just need to do the brood box as well and then all will make sense, or I can go back to the supplier and just swap the spacers I'm sure. I'll try it with the spacers that came with the brood box and see what that's like I think. I understood that these things should all fit snugly so that the bees don't build their own comb around it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You have SN1's in the supers and DN1's in the brood then - as I said, if you intend on going QX less you need to have all the frames spaced with identical spacers as the queen will go right up and lay in the top first. If the frames don't fit 'snugly' in the whole of the box use a thin dummy board (in both brood and super) on one end - this will, as far as the bees are concerned become the outer wall of the hive and when removed will make manipulation of the brood frames a lot easier.

 

[Levitt53]

Ok, perfect I'll swap the spacers then and see how they fit. Thanks.

 

[Millet]

Personally i would put everything together as the instruction say, that way you can have a play about and hopefully work out in your own head what goes where, with not opening everything up you may be missing the odd bit in another box, for instance from my last hive i bought i got Dn1 frames that require 10 frame castellation spacers for the supers and metal runners for the brood box that will hold 11 frames + dummy board, if you have muddled the metal runners up the frames will not be spaced correct, stick it all together and you will have a better idea of things and what questions to ask these knowledgeable folk, the hive i'm on about by the way is a National.

 

[Levitt53]

I got them all as separate parts locally. No metal runners. There were no instructions for the frames but the apiary told me how they should go. It makes sense that they should match if I'm not using a QX. The books only tell you so much. I'm having a building day tomorrow so yes once it's all together it should make more sense. I just wasn't expecting such a big gap but I'll e-mail the apiary once I know for definite that I want the other spacers and they'll swap them. Thanks

 

[Millet]

I got them all as separate parts locally. No metal runners. There were no instructions for the frames but the apiary told me how they should go. It makes sense that they should match if I'm not using a QX. The books only tell you so much. I'm having a building day tomorrow so yes once it's all together it should make more sense. I just wasn't expecting such a big gap but I'll e-mail the apiary once I know for definite that I want the other spacers and they'll swap them. Thanks

I thought the same when i built my first flat packed hive and frames, mine are hoffman frames and 11 fits the brood and supers but there is space for a 12th frame, that got me asking question a while back, that is where dummy boards come into it, look them up.. .
If you have no instructions it will be awkward building your first one.

These little videos by thorn show you how to assemble all the hive parts, personally i don't like nails i much prefare glued and screwed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ES2A_tdoMw

 

[Robbo8916]

I thought the same when i built my first flat packed hive and frames, mine are hoffman frames and 11 fits the brood and supers but there is space for a 12th frame, that got me asking question a while back, that is where dummy boards come into it, look them up.. .
If you have no instructions it will be awkward building your first one.

These little videos by thorn show you how to assemble all the hive parts, personally i don't like nails i much prefare glued and screwed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ES2A_tdoMw

I followed the Thornes videos for building boxes. Once you have done one its pretty easy as long as you get your measurements right.

Frames I decided to have a go myself first. Watched a video second and it turned out I had done it right! Was very relieved when hedgehog came to collect my hive and told me I had done it spot on!

I do regret not buying castellated runners as I now have to buy plastic spacers. But then I got two brood, two omf, 4 supers and 200 frames for £175.00.

Got delivery of a crown board with holes for a feeder and a few other bits and pieces coming tomorrow. As seconds I'm really impressed with the quality.

 

[snelgrove]

DN4 Hoffman self spacing in brood box and manley in supers that's what I use. Personally I would aim to convert your hive to this

 

[Millet]

I followed the Thornes videos for building boxes. Once you have done one its pretty easy as long as you get your measurements right.

Frames I decided to have a go myself first. Watched a video second and it turned out I had done it right! Was very relieved when hedgehog came to collect my hive and told me I had done it spot on!

I do regret not buying castellated runners as I now have to buy plastic spacers. But then I got two brood, two omf, 4 supers and 200 frames for £175.00.

Got delivery of a crown board with holes for a feeder and a few other bits and pieces coming tomorrow. As seconds I'm really impressed with the quality.

I don't like them but if you do you can buy them easy, just have a shop about, you can get them with different spacing for the amount of frames you want to use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CASTELLAT...-BEEKEEPING-BEEHIVE-HIVE-1-PAIR-/181682811028

 

[Robbo8916]

I don't like them but if you do you can buy them easy, just have a shop about, you can get them with different spacing for the amount of frames you want to use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CASTELLAT...-BEEKEEPING-BEEHIVE-HIVE-1-PAIR-/181682811028

Oh yeah I know. Thanks though.

As I bought my hives in the Thornes sale they came with plastic runners. It wasn't until I had built them then got round to the frames that I realised they are not self spacing frames so now I have no real option but to buy plastic end spacers.

Not a major issue but something I wish I had thought of beforehand. (Entrance blocks being the other!)

It shall all come together in the end, seeing as it is too cold for the bees to be moved into a full sized hive from their nuc I have time to get my **** together yet.

I'm not the best at planning ahead lol

 

[Millet]

Oh yeah I know. Thanks though.

As I bought my hives in the Thornes sale they came with plastic runners. It wasn't until I had built them then got round to the frames that I realised they are not self spacing frames so now I have no real option but to buy plastic end spacers.

Not a major issue but something I wish I had thought of beforehand. (Entrance blocks being the other!)

It shall all come together in the end, seeing as it is too cold for the bees to be moved into a full sized hive from their nuc I have time to get my **** together yet.

I'm not the best at planning ahead lol

If you bought the full lot from Thorne they should have sent you the correct equipment, send them a message and have a winge lol , them plastic runner imo are ok for putting upside down for the inspection tray but that's about it, i'm new to all this also but i like to start as i mean to go on.

 

[Robbo8916]

If you bought the full lot from Thorne they should have sent you the correct equipment, send them a message and have a winge lol , them plastic runner imo are ok for putting upside down for the inspection tray but that's about it, i'm new to all this also but i like to start as i mean to go on.

Yeah my OH said the same but as I bought the bits individually rather than as a full hive (twice) I have no argument really. We will get there....

 

[Millet]

I'm sure you will get there and good luck .