Frame size mixture

[andy-glide]

I have been given a new small colony of bees on a mixture of frame size in the brood box.

At least 2 if not 3 frames are short. Certainly 2 have drone brood hanging from the underside.

What should I do, nothing or replace 1 at a time?

 

[Cedar]

Hi, andy-glide,
As a fellow newbee, I have seen super frames used like that as away of controling varroa during the honey season theory being varoa prefer drone brood, so you uncap those cells and remove larvae the varoa will be visible.if I am wrong someone will be along with more knowledge.

 

[andy-glide]

Yes have seen this done but have not removed the drone section yet so looking for advice as to when this is best performed.

 

[Cedar]

The way I understand it is you just uncap sections of it say once a month as you dont want to remove all the drone brood in one go.

 

[Cedar]

Should have added you dont want to remove all drone cells as works like them.

 

[Into the lions den]

Yes have seen this done but have not removed the drone section yet so looking for advice as to when this is best performed.

First saw this in use in France over 20 years ago. The answer is to removed it all when its sealed. Its a varroa trap, but if you let any of it hatch it changes to a varroa farm.

They simply had buckets with them and sliced off all the sealed drone brood, even the maturer open drone brood if part of it was sealed, back to about half a cell below the bottom bars. The shallows were in the outer areas ogf the central brood nest, roughly where feral bees would build their drone combs in a natural nest...in a 10 frame set up it was usually something like frames 3 and 7.

This brood was then taken for disposal.........some buried it,,,,,,one guy used to feed it to his pigs and apparently to them it was a delicacy they went nuts for.

 

[oliver90owner]

No, to both posts #2 & 4

If frames are put in specifically for culling they are culled when all capped. Otherwise they are a varroa and drone factory. One only does that if there is a mite problem. No mites and it is an utter waste of time and energy for the bees.

Small colonies will likely not build drone comb anyway. They will build worker wild comb. Think deep nuc frames into a 14 x 12 box -thwe wiild comb is (initially) worker cells.

So the first question arising is why are they different sizes? Is it just a case of working them out to the side ready for exchange with corectly sized frames? Do they have an abominable varroa loading?

 

[alanf]

The orthodox, i.e. RBI suggestion if I recall the detail correctly. is that you add a short frame as a varroa trap.

Assuming the colony builds drone comb and raises brood in it, slice the entire drone comb off when capped. Freeze to kill the varroa (the brood is collateral damage) and fork out the larvae. Count a sample of the cells with varroa on the larvae (multiple larvae in one cell count 1). If the percentage of cells with any varroa is 15% or more you have a varroa problem. You can repeat, but every time you do it there is a lot of wasted effort by the bees so it's a balance. If there is no varroa problem take the frame out or move it above a queen excluder if there is worker brood present.

After freezing, the dead larvae can be fed to the birds and the fairly clean wax is a hive product that can be melted for trading in or other purposes.

 

[andy-glide]

know the principal of using this method of controlling varoa. However how many short frames should you have in a national brood box. Three as in my case seems a lot.

 

[oliver90owner]

One.

 

[region2]

Seen this recently with a fairly new beekeeper with a shortage of equipment - better than no frame at all but can obviously increase varroa if they draw out wild drone comb...

Solution is to keep a couple of the 50 frame seconds packs (from the sales) around for such emergencies. Much cheaper than buying 10 from the local supplier and you rarely run out. Make up a brood/super box worth (without the wax) and they're quickly available.

R2

 

[andy-glide]

On that basis obviously need to reduce the short frame count.

Would this be an oportunity to form a brood and a half using a spare super under the main brood box? The other alternative is to replave the short frames I assume one at a time.

 

[Poly Hive]

Three is two too many and probably now three too many.

Add in drawn comb either side of the brood nest to expand them.

PH

 

[itma]

I have been given a new small colony of bees on a mixture of frame size in the brood box.

At least 2 if not 3 frames are short. Certainly 2 have drone brood hanging from the underside. ...

... Would this be an oportunity to form a brood and a half using a spare super under the main brood box? The other alternative is to replave the short frames I assume one at a time.

Small colony? Probably nowhere near ready for more than the single brood.

If any of the short frames have no (worker) brood, pull those frames ASAP.
Slice off all the underslung drone brood on all the short frames for now. But anyway put in the inspection board for a week, to discover what the varroa level might be like in your new colony.
Do you know why they are only "a small colony"? Be cautious and practice particularly good apiary hygiene until you know for a fact that they are healthy - careful tool and glove washing between hives. And certainly don't swap those short frames into any other colony at this point.

You'll get the new foundation frame(s) drawn quickest placed next to the end(s) of the brood nest -- BUT -- don't "split the brood" with a frame of foundation, so take care to make sure there aren't eggs on the frame 'outside' the foundation.
With the weather staying pretty poor for the bees, you might consider a bit of feeding to help get the new frames drawn, and definitely feed if the hive is at all 'light' on stores.