FoundationLESS Supers

[Jimy Dee]

Folks

I am interested in leaving the bees go into foundation-less supers to get 100% natural comb honey. I am fully aware of the down sides of such a move and I accept it is a step backwards in terms of management vis a vis frame inspection, extraction etc, however I wish to give it a whirl.

Now my question is, instead of putting in frames without foundation has any one come across a smart way of adding basic simple top bars to supers to allow the bees start building wild comb? I would like to experiment with a super or two without having to put in normal super frames. One of my difficulties is sourcing timber lats narrow enough to naturally fit into grove in the super where the lug of the frame normally sits. Keeping in mind that I wish to possibly add a few supers so I have to keep the top bars spaced/designed to allow bees mover upwards.

Photos or links to photos would be really beneficial.

Thanks in advance.

 

[pargyle]

Folks

Now my question is, instead of putting in frames without foundation has any one come across a smart way of adding basic simple top bars to supers to allow the bees start building wild comb? I would like to experiment with a super or two without having to put in normal super frames. One of my difficulties is sourcing timber lats narrow enough to naturally fit into grove in the super where the lug of the frame normally sits. Keeping in mind that I wish to possibly add a few supers so I have to keep the top bars spaced/designed to allow bees mover upwards.

Photos or links to photos would be really beneficial.
.

Jim, If you cut the rail that normally holds the fouindation in place off a standard topbar with a table saw/bandsaw or even a stanley knife then you have a flat underside of the topbar. Nail the bit of timber you have just cut off back to the top bar in the middle instead of to one side, paint it with some melted beeswax and either use them as they are or assemble the frame as normal and just run it foundationless ... simples.

The bees will build out natural comb inside the super frame and you have very natural comb honey ... you can spin it out or cut it out and sell it as natural comb honey or chunk honey ... gets a premium.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Folks

I am interested in leaving the bees go into foundation-less supers to get 100% natural comb honey. I am fully aware of the down sides of such a move and I accept it is a step backwards in terms of management vis a vis frame inspection, extraction etc, however I wish to give it a whirl.

Now my question is, instead of putting in frames without foundation has any one come across a smart way of adding basic simple top bars to supers to allow the bees start building wild comb? I would like to experiment with a super or two without having to put in normal super frames. One of my difficulties is sourcing timber lats narrow enough to naturally fit into grove in the super where the lug of the frame normally sits. Keeping in mind that I wish to possibly add a few supers so I have to keep the top bars spaced/designed to allow bees mover upwards.

Photos or links to photos would be really beneficial.

Thanks in advance.

Whats stopping you from using normal sn1 top bars with plastic end spacers and a dribble of melted wax in a line where you want them to build? Good luck with handling the filled comb though.

 

[mjt68]

Folks

I am interested in leaving the bees go into foundation-less supers to get 100% natural comb honey. I am fully aware of the down sides of such a move and I accept it is a step backwards in terms of management vis a vis frame inspection, extraction etc, however I wish to give it a whirl.

Now my question is, instead of putting in frames without foundation has any one come across a smart way of adding basic simple top bars to supers to allow the bees start building wild comb? I would like to experiment with a super or two without having to put in normal super frames. One of my difficulties is sourcing timber lats narrow enough to naturally fit into grove in the super where the lug of the frame normally sits. Keeping in mind that I wish to possibly add a few supers so I have to keep the top bars spaced/designed to allow bees mover upwards.

Photos or links to photos would be really beneficial.

Thanks in advance.

No experience of supers without frames but I left a cover board off from a poly hive with a deep roof cavity and the bees filles it with beautiful wild comb. You could just try nailing a cover board to an empty super and let them run completely wild? Love to see what the result looked like, I'd less love having to deal with it!

I tried a completely foundationless super once and comb was drawn at right angles to frames in the least useful way imaginable. Now when I want comb honey I alternate drawn comb (on foundation) with foundationless frames as I think this increases the chance that the comb would be drawn along the frame and not across them. Not had any problems and get nice straight combs for cutting. In terms of a guide on the foundationless frames the other suggestions here are good but if you have old frames with comb remnants on the top/side bars (e.g. ones you wrecked during extraction) these work fine for me. In your case you'd only be wanting the top bars I presume.

 

[viridens]

Whats stopping you from using normal sn1 top bars with plastic end spacers and a dribble of melted wax in a line where you want them to build? Good luck with handling the filled comb though.

I have done exactly that in the past, and it worked well. The bees are likely to attach the top third of the combs to the sides of the box. So to avoid a big mess, cut these attachments before lifting the bars.
The filled comb handles well as long as you keep it vertical. -Don't turn it through 90° without support.