Foundation not being drawn

[BeeBo]

I split a strong hive four weeks ago so put two new frames in the existing hive (and added a dummy board) on the outside of the brood box to replace the frames removed.

After I had done the split I decided the original hive had probably already swarmed. Small panic. No evidence of laying queen in either hive for over two weeks.

On the "new" hive I initially added a new frame either side of the transferred frames and boxed them in with a dummy boad. About 10 days later I added four more new frames to fill the brood box and put insulation above the brood box. Some syrup was put on a week ago which they have slowly taken.

The two frames on the original hive and the second lot of frames on the new hive contained different foundation (i.e different supplier). None of these frames are being drawn and in fact have a few holes.

In the last week there appears to be new larvae in both hives but I'm a bit worried there isn't going to be enough space, particularly in the new hive, for egg laying as the new foundation isn't been drawn.

Should I worry? Is there anything I should be doing to get them going?

 

[Lorenz]

Some bees do make holes.

Sometimes if you spray the foundation with syrup on bth sides it encourages them to draw it.

The main thing is that they will not draw it if they do not need it, so if they are not queenright/the queen has plenty of room to lay and there is plenty of room for stores, they won't bother drawing it.

Don't worry.

 

[itma]

If you have any frames that are stores-only, move one frame of foundation to be between those stores and the brood. That's the quickest place you are likely to get it drawn.

 

[oliver90owner]

So you transferred 3 frames to the queenless split? Any extra bees? Was this more brood or food?

Firstly the flying bees would have gone home, leaving the split depleted and possibly without enough bees to service the brood?

Neither box, being without a laying queen, would likely need any extra laying space for around three weeks (for a sealed queen cell) or four weeks (an emergency cell from an egg). Maybe even longer.

To me this was not a well thought out split or you have not given us all the detais. Further it would seem you did not actually split a strong colony (if around half the bees had already departed with the swarm).

They will be slow to get going, all ways around, I would think as they are likely having a hard time of it.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

May I thumb a lift on this thread?

Similarly, an A/S 4 weeks ago - but transferred only one frame with the queen and BIAS. They seem to be flourishing - but I think there may be a supercedure queen in there, alongside the old queen (seen yesterday).

They have left 3 frames totally undrawn, and a further 2 partially so.
The remainder are largely brood frames.

However, frustratingly, they are laying down lots of pollen stores on two supers above the 14 x 12 BB. A super above these is virtually capped honey.

How do I persuade them to draw these frames and transfer the stores to the BB?

Dusty.

 

[Finman]

I split a strong hive four weeks ago so put two new frames in the existing hive Should I worry? Is there anything I should be doing to get them going?

Bees draw the foundation when they need it. At least you need not to worry.

Something bigger is happening there: no flow, colony swarmed too much. Old brood have emerged allready?

 

[Graham40]

Finman is right, when he says bees draw out comb when they need it.

If I want comb drawn out its done on a good flow with a big workforce or by pumping gallons of syrup in. You will find that swarms are best at drawing out comb.

If you want the broodbox drawn out take the super off and feed heavy, you can use the honey off the uncapping tray or syrup, monitor the build up once they've got the broodchamber drawn out put back on a super. There is a catch however if there are to many bees in the hive you will need to add space another broodbox above they like building upwards so you could put another 14x12 on if its over crowded but use dummys on the outer walls of both boxs to close down the space manipulate the combs so you have the broodnest above and bellow. once you've got enough combs drawn out you can revert to a single plus supers.

As for the foundation, it needs to be fresh, so warm it up with a heatgun first or put it in the sun, if there's no smell they're not going to bother with it. Another problem can be if to much Chinese wax gets added to the mix, they wont touch it... quite a few years ago this happened and a certain company had to recall the lot. then you can spray it with syrup as well.

 

[Finman]

I give foundations to be drawn during main yield. Hives draw them as much as I want.
False swarms produce too easily 15 combs foundations/hive.

I am not worried about one foundation. Thery make it when they are ready.

.

 

[Graham40]

Once they're in the habit of drawing out comb if the temperature and flow is right then they will draw out huge quantities of comb.
I prefer using my own bees wax rather than buying in, the bees prefer their own wax to the manufactured. As its home made its also thicker and they reuse it so the combs are built quickly. Still it takes a long time to make so i do buy in as well.

 

[madasafish]

Next week - if forecasts are correct, the heat wave should solve the problem.

 

[BeeBo]

Thank you all for your comments and encouragement. I won't worry any more - until the next time!

I accept the split wasn't brilliantly timed. I didn't appreciate when I decided to keep bees I might have to give up my job to look after them.

Looking forward to summer coming next week and our lime trees are about to break into blossom. Lining up the supers in anticipation.