Found Her Maj, but how do I catch her?

[alynewbee]

Dear Beekeepers,

Thank you to everyone who posted in response to Poly Hive's thread about Queen Finding (and thank you so much Poly Hive for starting it off). I followed the advice (no smoke, looking at the dark side first) and I found her!!! I was thrilled - this being the first time ever I've spotted a queen. Interestingly, as I was going through the frames all was calm until I lifted the frame she was on then a loud buzz went up. Eye-up I thought, and pretty much saw her straight away!

But - how on earth do you catch her? I had my queen catcher in hand (the sort of hair clip type) but I couldn't get near her for angry bees running all around her. I want to mark and clip her (bit advanced class I know but I have close neighbours and want to do everything I can to prevent swarming).

Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thank you

Aly

 

[enrico]

There are two ways to pin her down. One is a queen marking cage which is circular with sharp pins round. Catch her in that and shake the frame carefully to get rid of some of the other bees. The other thing is a glass tube with a soft sponge plunger that I find useful. Don;t know where you buy it but I am sure others will.. Put it in front of the queen and she may run up into it. Use the plunger to gently push her onto the plastic cap and relesae the cap so that you can pick her up.
I will try and take a phot of these two items so you can see what I am talking about!!!!
E

 

[Poly Hive]

Ah yes that bit... LOL

Well for whatit is worth I dinna use any type of catcher apart from my fingers.

The hair clip type risks cutting them in two, the thorn cage can bisect them too so... I walk away with the frame in my hands keeping an eye on her.

Away from the hive I take of my glove using my right boot to hold the glove finger tips, (never said this was easy did I...LOL) then with my naked and very clean left hand, as I am right handed, I catch her by the wing, and then using my right hand (see it does make some sense at last) I clip and mark her.

simples.... so... use your poor drones to practise on but DO kill them after wards...

PH

 

[enrico]

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

The plunger described by Enrico is avaialbe from Thornes and probably everyone else.

My one and only experience used the crown of thorns also described earlier, didnt find it too difficult and fortunately didnt bisect her either, to my mind easier for the nervous novice than picking her up by hand

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I leave gloves on (cheap and thin marigolds or disposables) and can pick up with those on. Pick up with thumb and forefinger by the wings. I USED to use a crown of thornes; never had a problem but find picking up easier. If you have the confidence to do it. The first 10 times are the wosrt!

 

[psafloyd]

There are two ways to pin her down. One is a queen marking cage which is circular with sharp pins round. Catch her in that and shake the frame carefully to get rid of some of the other bees. The other thing is a glass tube with a soft sponge plunger that I find useful. Don;t know where you buy it but I am sure others will.. Put it in front of the queen and she may run up into it. Use the plunger to gently push her onto the plastic cap and relesae the cap so that you can pick her up.
I will try and take a phot of these two items so you can see what I am talking about!!!!
E

After I raised concerns about using the crown of thorns or plunger, my mentor recommended I do as he does and use your hands.

Catch the queen by the wings, gently, mind. Place her on your other middle finger, let her get her feet down and then bring in your index finger and thumb above her to hold her securely.

If clipping (which I know has its supporters and critics), make sure you get the scissors positioned without a leg in before clipping and then you may easily mark her, too.

I have done it as a practice on drones last year, but mine appears to have absconded before I could mark her.

 

[fredbloggs]

Aly

My advice is to hold off clipping!! There are many experienced beeks who do not handle queens. If you damage queenie, you will be crying amd as you have only the one unit, no insurance?

I would certainly mark but use the tools mentioned. When you are more proficient/confident - then learn to pick up drones, then the q of your second colony.

Then teach me!

Regards

FB

 

[nottingham]

Hi Aly

I understand from your post that you already have a plastic Queen catcher. Here is a link for a plastic Queen catcher (for a spare) and Queen marking cage with Plunger.

http://goo.gl/9II63

I myself wouldn't worry to much about marking the Queen at the moment. Your could alway mark her in the late September / October while you are getting your colony ready for the winter and you have taken off the last honey crop of the season.

As for clipping the Queens wings, I wouldn't go down that road myself. In my opinion Queen clipping brings to must risk. It is OK to clip a Queens wings if the hive is in your garden and you work from home, as losing the Queen isn't a risk I would wish to take. I have my bees in an out apiary, so if my bees swarmed (despite weekly inspections and swarm control) the people that would normally phone me to say "your bees have swarmed" won't phone me at all if I clipped my Queen. This because the Queen would get lost in the grass and the swarm would not stay airborne for long. The swarm would be on the floor by the hive.

I watch my bees buzz in and out everyday for about 20 mins but if I come to my hive one morning to find my colony was all in the grass because I clipped the Queen and they all stayed on the floor caring for the Queen problems would follow. Could I find the Queen and would I kill her by mistake while looking for her? When I go on a 4 day holiday would I come home to find all my bees dead in front on the hive?

When a colony swarms they normally swarm to a bush or tree and if every one who lives near your apiary knows you keep bees, the chances are someone will phone you and then you can shake the your bees into a straw skep or blanket. Every time you have any contact with your bees you run the risk of killing the Queen by mistake but with careful handling and getting to know your bees that risk is low. In my opinion clipping your Queen makes the risk of killing your Queen by mistake that mush higher of a risk.

Regards

Duncan

 

[Midland Beek]

I use a pluffer-type queen catcher.

 

[MrB]

Aly

My advice is to hold off clipping!! There are many experienced beeks who do not handle queens. If you damage queenie, you will be crying amd as you have only the one unit, no insurance?

I would certainly mark but use the tools mentioned. When you are more proficient/confident - then learn to pick up drones, then the q of your second colony.

Then teach me!

Regards

FB

well, sort of! i wouldn't even mark with just 1 colony.

I caught and marked my Q last year when i only had 1 hive, and guess what? i either must have damaged or killed her, next time i looked i was Q-

 

[Poly Hive]

For goodness sake people.

You practise on drones first, even if it is for a couple of seasons and several dozen lads. You practise first.

PH

 

[Finman]

.
Take queen's wings between fingers

 

[alynewbee]

Thank you all so much for such wonderful advice. It's given me lots to ponder. I'm starting to have thoughts about not clipping her at all - my hands were shaking so much today that if I had got her, I might well have done her some harm. My main reason for clipping is for swarm prevention as the bees are in my garden and I don't want to scare my neighbours, but clipping is only one of several swarm prevention strategies, so I think on balance I will not take the risk till I've at least done a good bit of practice on some drones.

I do want to mark her though, as most of the swarm preventions I read involve finding her maj in the first place. I think I might get one of those crown of thorns rings and go mightily carefully.

Thank you all again so much, it is fantastic to have such a wealth of experience and such willingness to help here on the forum.

Aly

 

[xgeordie]

I use the marking cage with plunger. The problem is to quickly get the queen into the cage without chasing her all over the frame.

I place the plastic tube over the queen then carefully slide a small thin bit of plastic sheet underneath to trap her (source - discarded wrapping from a kids toy). Invert the cage and quickly remove the plastic sheet and insert the plunger. Hope that makes sense.

I have read that you can manipulate the queen so her wings stick out at the top of the marking cage for clipping, but not done that myself.

I'm not keen on trying to handle the queen directly - too cack-handed.

 

[Mike a]

I'm sorry I don't understand why so many bee keepers feel they need to clip the queens wings maiming her for no good reason especially those who who have been bee keepers for a few years.

I expect several will reply because it stop her swarming.... !
Still not a valid argument imho as you should be able to see the warning signs long beforehand, provided you keep up with your regular inspections.

overcrowding
honey bound / brood bound
idle bees

Ask anyone who clips how much do they clip and you will also get different answers. Clip too much of her wing and she will be superseded shortly afterwards, its a bad habit imho taught by books and older generation bee keepers.

Food for thought

 

[nottingham]

I expect several will reply because it stop her swarming.... !

That's only because the poor cow can't fly away from the hive. She will still want to swarm tho but just fall to the floor.

How can that be better than her flying away and being collected safely?

an empty hive about 200 meter away from your colony would work for swarming (in a large garden or out apiary), if you can't be bothered inspected every week or get to know your bees and know how to keep them happy.

 

[DanBee]

Nottingham/Duncan - your understanding of what happens when a swarm issues with a clipped queen is incorrect. Change book or change mentor!

 

[DanBee]

My advice is to hold off clipping!!

Perhaps you should expand on the pros and cons behind clipping, rather than just presenting it as a preference?

PH is right to keep banging on about this - just practice picking up and clipping and marking drones until you are confident.

 

[nottingham]

Nottingham/Duncan - your understanding of what happens when a swarm issues with a clipped queen is incorrect. Change book or change mentor!

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=709&highlight=queen+lost+grass

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5450&highlight=queen+lost+grass

Perhaps you should tell "Queen Bee" members and Admin that they are wrong and talking complete rubbish. Good luck with that lol.

There clearly is some good reasons for clipping Queens but it not a good practice to be under taken for every beek.