Forcing a hive to be queenless

[idg]

I have a hive that is quite nasty. They are intent on swarming although I have done lots to try and stop them.
When I first saw queen cells I demareed. (in hindsight the wrong move as queen cells had already developed).
I removed all queen cells from upstairs, so they started making them down stairs. I removed 3 queen cells charged but not capped last friday. Queen was present. Yesterday there must have been 15 queen cell some capped. I couldn't find the queen but I was under fire from the hive. The queen was clipped but couldn't find her anywhere.
My reading of the situation was that I must have missed a queen cell last week, resulting in it being capped mid week. At this point queenie disappeared. At which point the hive went into QC making mode (hence the 15)
What I would like to do now is push the hive to be queenless by destroying all QC over the next week. I don't want them developing a queen from such nasty genes. I would then like to introduce a frame of eggs from a much more docile hive. Is this ok to do? how long should I leave the hive queenless? Would it be better to bring in a queen?

 

[dexter's shed]

but I was under fire from the hive

that's probably because some person in a white suit kept ripping everything down


I have done lots to try and stop them

why?? swarming is a natural instinct, far better to artificial swarm



.

I'm no expert by a long shot, but were they bad bees before you started all this ?

 

[idg]

I'm no expert by a long shot, but were they bad bees before you started all this ?

Yes, they have been nastsy for a time now. I would (and probably should) have requeened earlier, but they are good producers.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Basically as you have suggested.

I did this the other year. On the same inspection I found and marked the queen I received multiple stings and decided they were too defensive.

I re-found the queen and did away with her and then went back in a week later and removed all QC's.

They don't need to be Q- for long before adding a frame of eggs from another colony. In my case it was a week due to work commitments.

That colony re-queened and built up nicely and is now one of my best colonies.

Do note that the temperament will not change with the new queen until all the original bees have died off and been replaced by the new queens offspring.

Also don't forget to reduce the number of QC's on the frame of eggs down otherwise they may swarm!

 

[idg]

They don't need to be Q- for long before adding a frame of eggs from another colony. QUOTE]

Can you leave it too long? At some point will laying workers become an issue ? Is that a factor of how long they are queenless?

 

[Travelator]

Problem is that a stock which was originally nasty will be even more nasty if they're queenless. Are you able to unite them with a couple of good colonies?

If there's a well behaved colony within a few feet, you could remove the nasty colony and let the flying bees beg their way into their neighbour. Then unite the brood and nurse bees with a good colony a bit further away. Result - two strong colonies, each with a proportion of badly behaved worker bees but both with acceptable queens.

 

[beeno]

They don't need to be Q- for long before adding a frame of eggs from another colony. QUOTE]

Can you leave it too long? At some point will laying workers become an issue ? Is that a factor of how long they are queenless?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Three weeks + is often banded about.

 

[YorkshireBees]

They don't need to be Q- for long before adding a frame of eggs from another colony. QUOTE]

Can you leave it too long? At some point will laying workers become an issue ? Is that a factor of how long they are queenless?

Yes ofc you can leave it too long but more likely the dwindling bee population will be more of a problem than laying workers.

As I said before mine were Q- over a week and they were fine.

 

[biggles]

There is a chance that the next generation of bees will not be nasty, I've seen that happen a few times before so might be worth leaving a QC and seeing.

 

[B+.]

You not only have to remove queen cells but destroy drone brood that your old queen laid. This will effectively extinguish her genetic line.
Rather than raise your own queen, where the chance of you getting something just as bad is still quite high (the old queen, which you know was bad, laid the eggs and they will be fertilised by whatever drones catch the virgin queen you raise from them). This is one of those situations where you are better off introducing a mated queen where you know she will be better.

 

[For want of a better word]

You not only have to remove queen cells but destroy drone brood that your old queen laid. This will effectively extinguish her genetic line.
Rather than raise your own queen, where the chance of you getting something just as bad is still quite high (the old queen, which you know was bad, laid the eggs and they will be fertilised by whatever drones catch the virgin queen you raise from them). This is one of those situations where you are better off introducing a mated queen where you know she will be better.

If you performed 1/2 an artificial swarm ( ie put/sweep/shake all bees onto new frames in brood box on same floor, add a qe, moved all frames
less bees to brood box on top of qe and new box) all the drones + queen will be in bottom box.
Remove and cull ( petrol... but do not throw a match on it!)
Top box can be put back on floor and requeened ( remove all queen cells and anything a queen could be raised from) or a frame of fresh eggs from a nicer colony.

May take a bit of effort... but what a grin it would put on your face if you were successful!

Yeghes da