floors and dummies

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

sahtlinurk

House Bee
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
334
Reaction score
0
Location
uk, Abingdon
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
12
when using dummy boards i am occasionally left with the gap between the floor and dummy board. its because I build my own floors ( and everything else) and every year the depth of the floor tends to be what ever i dream up in the workhsop ( around 20mm) :) .

Now, to get the dummy boards reach the floor/mesh i have installed all of my dummies 10 cm thin ply slide on runners at the bottom. I make the boards themselves the depth of the brood box. when inserting board, slide finds the floor level and runners let the slide move when lowering the dummy in place. works like dream,

Lauri
 
A picture would help clarify your description.
All my dummy boards whether single or three frame are the same profile as an adjacent frame. Never have any problems with their use.
What you are describing sound more like a division board to separate one part of the hive.
 
Doesn't matter if the dummy board doesn't reach the floor - in fact, they should have beespace all round.

:iagree:

Dummy boards or dummy frames are the same dimensions as any of the other frames in the hive and will be tbs or bbs same as the frames. They are narrower/thinner, and don't have the same top bar/side bars as other frames. They're just meant to block the sideways movement of the colony, or reduce the amount of space a colony has to maintain, whilst at the same time allowing the bees to move to the other side of the frame if they want to.

A division board takes has the same profile as the inner space in the box going down to the floor, up to the crown board and sideways to the hive walls. It's used when a box contains more than one colony. It completely separates one colony from another.
 
Doesn't matter if the dummy board doesn't reach the floor - in fact, they should have beespace all round. Now dividing boards are a different matter.

Having started out with purchased dummy boards which were fabricated and have a top rail, I came across a one piece plastic dummy board which was a single thickness sheet with protruding lugs. I now make mine by jigsawing in one piece out of a sheet of plywood. Uses slightly more plywood as there are two bits cut to waste at the sides but saves an immense amount of time. The same process can be used to make dividers if the dimensions are adjusted to give a close fit to the top, lug rebate, sides and floor. The divider can be made with a coating of kingspan etc to reduce the volume to give the benefits of a nuc and be flexible in progressively expanding the volume as required when the colony grows.
 
split board, following board, dummy board.. very much the same thing. i like mine to seal the bottom hence the slide. personal preference :)
 
If you use insulated dummies they keep the bees cosy with out touching the floor. No need to over engineer things. In face Mobus cut insulation and glued into the appropriate frame. Simple and effective.

KISS

PH
 
No he used a frame as stated so that would depend on which hive type he was making for.

A split board and a dummy are not the same thing.

PH
 
You can easily convert a dummy frame into a thermal-curtain-type divider thusly:

2rzaxro.jpg


The flexible edges are made from soft PVC with a strip of foam rubber inside. Leave an inch or two gap at the bottom, and lay a soft 'crown board' over the frame top-bars. I now use thick polythene sheeting (ex storm-damaged polytunnel covers) instead of plywood crown boards with beespace battens.

The board shown is 12" deep and is currently being used to divide a brood box housing 14"x14" frames.
LJ
 
You can easily convert a dummy frame into a thermal-curtain-type divider thusly:

2rzaxro.jpg


The flexible edges are made from soft PVC with a strip of foam rubber inside. Leave an inch or two gap at the bottom, and lay a soft 'crown board' over the frame top-bars. I now use thick polythene sheeting (ex storm-damaged polytunnel covers) instead of plywood crown boards with beespace battens.

The board shown is 12" deep and is currently being used to divide a brood box housing 14"x14" frames.
LJ
if i get the picture correctly this sheeting rests on the frame top bars?
 
if i get the picture correctly this sheeting rests on the frame top bars?

Yes - best thought of perhaps as a 'Soft' crown board. These sheets have a 3-4" slab of polystyrene over, with holes cut (in both the sheet and polystyrene) to accomodate inverted jar feeders. The jar feeders in turn have polystyrene covers (think tea cosy) placed over them.

I'm finding the great advantage of these plastic sheets is that they can be peeled back slowly, rather than with the 'jolt' which often occurs when removing hard crown boards. There's also better sealing, without any problems of plywood warp.

I haven't found an ideal solution yet for keeping the inverted jar feeder spaced off the top bars - otherwise I much prefer this way of working.

The only negative aspect is when the plastic sheet is first used (when clean) - it can then fly about in a breeze. But as soon as some propolis is attached, it sticks down well enough - like Blu-Tack.
LJ

Perhaps I should have added - this board is only being used because of the exceptionally large volume of this hive - as soon as six or more 14"x14" frames are fully drawn, it'll be removed. It then *might* be re-installed for winter ... it all depends.
 
Last edited:
Yes - best thought of perhaps as a 'Soft' crown board. These sheets have a 3-4" slab of polystyrene over, with holes cut (in both the sheet and polystyrene) to accomodate inverted jar feeders. The jar feeders in turn have polystyrene covers (think tea cosy) placed over them.

I'm finding the great advantage of these plastic sheets is that they can be peeled back slowly, rather than with the 'jolt' which often occurs when removing hard crown boards. There's also better sealing, without any problems of plywood warp.

I haven't found an ideal solution yet for keeping the inverted jar feeder spaced off the top bars - otherwise I much prefer this way of working.

The only negative aspect is when the plastic sheet is first used (when clean) - it can then fly about in a breeze. But as soon as some propolis is attached, it sticks down well enough - like Blu-Tack.
LJ

Perhaps I should have added - this board is only being used because of the exceptionally large volume of this hive - as soon as six or more 14"x14" frames are fully drawn, it'll be removed. It then *might* be re-installed for winter ... it all depends.

Have you noted any changed behaviour with the soft C/B e.g. more or less holes through the comb, excessive or diminished propolis?
interesting that it proves "operationally feasible". One would have thought it would have been discovered long ago but sometimes beeking moves slowly, sometimes VERY SLOWLY
 
Have you noted any changed behaviour with the soft C/B e.g. more or less holes through the comb, excessive or diminished propolis?
interesting that it proves "operationally feasible". One would have thought it would have been discovered long ago but sometimes beeking moves slowly, sometimes VERY SLOWLY

'Soft' Crown Boards have been used from the very beginning of the modern age of beekeeping (i.e. Langstroth onwards). Here's an extract from Dadant's 'System of Beekeeping', 1920, p.39-41. As this thread is about dummy boards, I've started from that point ...

The division board is sometimes called a "dummy." Yet there is a great difference between the two. A dummy is only a board shaped like one of the frames, and of the same size. It fills the place of a frame, but does not conserve heat any better than the frame of empty comb. Our division board is closed at both ends, with a rounding piece of oil cloth, tacked on it. It effectually prevents the circulation of air on the ends. Of course, if we were to make it of the exact length of the inside of the hive, we would have great trouble in moving it when necessary, because the bees would glue it fast. But with the soft cloth on both ends, it is moved without jar and without trouble. We remove it temporarily when we need room to handle the frames, in searching for a queen, for brood, etc. It is also moved up to the number of combs actually occupied by bees and honey, when a small colony inhabits the hive. The reader will bear in mind that the hive is made for 10 frames and a division board, while an ordinary Langstroth 8-frame hive, when full, has less capacity than 6 frames of the Dadant hive. We may therefore have occasion to winter a small colony on 6 frames, filling the space behind our division board with forest leaves, or other warm material, and our colony will be more compact and will stand a better chance of wintering safely than the colonies in 8-frame Langstroth hives. The division board, however, is not made to touch the bottom of the hive, but a bee space is left under it. Our reason for this is that, often, bees have found themselves imprisoned behind a full depth board. Also, in manipulations, it is inadvisable to use a board which may crush bees when put down in place. Our board does not crush any bees and yet serves the purpose of confining the heat of the cluster. Since heat rises, there is but little deperdition of it at the bottom. Not so, with the dummy, which is open on both ends and serves very little purpose. The top slat, or top bar, of this division board, is made of exactly the same size and thickness as the top bar of a frame. It fits in the same rabbet and is not in the way of the supers.

The oilcloth over the combs has proven very superior to honey boards, as the bees cannot glue it fast as they do a board. When we remove a honey board from the top of a brood-chamber, there is a commotion and a jar, for it is always glued. In cool weather, the removal of such a board sets the entire colony in an uproar, as a kick from the operator might do. A cloth is pulled gently from the top of the frame and "peels off" just as far as wanted, without any jar and without exciting the bees. We have used oil cloths, painted ducking, khaki, gunny cloth, etc. Anything which will confine the bees will do. Some object to these articles because the bees tear them up. It is true that they do so, in the course of time. However, if the cloths are strong and well painted, they last a long time. Their usefulness permits us to put up with their inconveniences. We replace them as often as needed. The oil cloth is constantly kept upon the hive, except in winter. When putting on supers we place it at the top of the supers.

Returning to the 'Division Board' ... on page 26 of his book, Dadant criticises the De Layens Hive (a Deep Long Hive) as follows:

In a former chapter, we mentioned very wide hives, with side storage, under what is now termed "the long idea" system. Such hives are used in a number of localities, but the very deep hives are better suited to this method. So the most persistent system of side storage is followed with the De Layens hive, containing as many as 20 or more frames, 12 or 13 inches deep or nearly square. The difficulty is that the queen is at liberty to roam from one comb to another and may have a little brood in most of the frames. Then the honey is difficult to extract.

If only Dadant had realised that the Division Board he employed as a Thermal Curtain would function equally well as a Queen Excluder ! This being the method of Queen Exclusion used in the relatively modern Die Bienenkiste beehive.

Propolis - much more - but it comes away with the plastic sheet, so doesn't present much of a problem.

Holes in combs ? Yes - I run foundationless, and there's always a hole (about the size of a 5p coin) in both top corners, and quite often a single similar sized hole near the centre of the comb. Can't say whether this happens with foundation, or not.

LJ
 
Last edited:
Not really

Perhaps, on occasions, the subtle difference between 'beekeeper' and 'keeper of bees'?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top